KATCHER
56 posts
Feb 18, 2009
7:31 PM
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tony do you fly in the big flys ??? and are you scoring with your rubys ??? i havent seen any one ask ? and i been wanting to ask for a while now!! because i was looking for your name on the new nbrc book and i cant find your name on the flyers list ???? please let me know ? i am very interested in some rubys ? but we allways want to know how have others done with them!!
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Silkies_Roller
5 posts
Feb 18, 2009
8:35 PM
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Thanks Kat. I myself wander about that to. Anyone care to share. If the outcome is good will we still continue to buy a $60 birds. What if the outcome is not good, does the birds still worth $60. Will we still continue to buy.
How do we want to purchase good birds. Is it after the Big Name or after what it claims to be. Any one care to share. If i buy a $60 birds will that makes my birds proven, quality in all aspect.
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roller alley
97 posts
Feb 18, 2009
9:00 PM
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SO IF U DID SEE THE RUBYS AS TOP SCORED IN THE FLYS WOULD YOU STILL PURCHASE THE BIRDS IF THEY WERE LETS SAY $100. OR $150.. A MEAGER 50 BUCKS AND U WANT A FREE TICKET TO THE TOP. DO THE WORK PAY THE 50
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KATCHER
63 posts
Feb 18, 2009
9:47 PM
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well roller alley the question says TONY DO YOU FLY IN THE BIG FLYS ??? !!! the question wasnt or isnt what do you think!! and about paying more his birds that wouldnt be a problem i have payd 10 times more for 1 bird!! but its of a question allot would love to know!! just think about it if he dosent fly but tony claims that hes bird are ass good as he claims with all those good traits !!!! why wouldnt he fly the big flys ???? dose it make sence to you roller alley!!! i have nothing against rubys or about tony selling them for 10 bucks too a million bucks a birds!! its a simple humble question i belive we can ask any one that sale birds this question!!!!! and for you roller alley see you at the flys!!( A MEAGER 50 BUCKS AND U WANT A FREE TICKET TO THE TOP. DO THE WORK PAY THE 50) i aint asking for a free ticket to the top!!
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
337 posts
Feb 18, 2009
9:52 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Hey guys,
You are paying for a chance at getting top birds..I dont care who you go and buy birds from, when your stock gets that popular that you sell 100's of birds a year, you are just buying the chance..The fact that Tony competes no matter the outcome, shows the confidence he has in them. You are just buying the oportunity to benefit from his or anyones hard work.
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KATCHER
64 posts
Feb 18, 2009
10:10 PM
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any can sale and any one can buy from any one!!! and we can sale and buy for what ever price we want to sale or buy!!! thats not the question!!! MY QUESTION IS DOES TONY COMPETE WITH HIS RUBYS!!! THATS IT???? and as for rubys doing good in the big comps I KNOW paul fullerton is doing good with the rubys so i know they are good !!! but thats not my question!!!
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
341 posts
Feb 18, 2009
10:16 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Yes, Tony competes.......
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KATCHER
65 posts
Feb 18, 2009
10:20 PM
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for lipper and roller alley you guys seem to be talking for tony!!
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KATCHER
66 posts
Feb 18, 2009
10:21 PM
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okay mr lipper what page of the nbrc book is tonys score???
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3081 posts
Feb 18, 2009
10:26 PM
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Hey Katcher, if you want to talk to me about my birds, call me or send me an email. If you want to find out what others have said, use the search feature, over the years, there have been several threads about the satisfaction others have had with them, look it up.
But I will give you this: my original stock came from Sal Estrada out of California. He received his birds from several fanciers, most notably Homer Corderre, Richard Apadoca. Homer's birds are highly valued by by many breeders there.
Sal flew competition regularly and was a consistent top finisher in his club the LPRC before he dropped out of competition. He won the Southern California region for the World Cup back in the 90's when it was basically one region.
Paul Fullerton came in 5th this past year flying a mix of Mort Emani birds and Rubys, Paul has an order in for more pairs (hope you don't mind me saying so Paul)
My 903 foundation cock bird is about 7 generations removed from the 514 hen. It was never my goal to fly competitions, my goal with the Birmingham Roller has been to fly pigeons to the Birmingham Roller aerial standard: "The true Birmingham Roller which turns over backwards with inconceivable rapidity through a considerable distance like a spinning ball".
My philosophy has been to stick with what I call the 5 Primary Traits that I believe will ensure the aerial standard in my strain:
1: Roll (nurture the instinctual propensity for joyous rolling behavior)
2: Velocity (maintain the rapid rolling as though a spinning ball)
3: Depth (through a considerable distance of 20’ to 40’ more or less)
4: Control (careful breeding to ensure intelligent rollers that can turn the roll on and off at will)
5: Type (breeding birds of proper proportion, size and strength to maximize the aerodynamics)
My family will produce rollers that will roll 20 to 30 feet and deeper (and even shallow). The spin is tight and of good style.
I started flying the "big" flys (World Cup)when I came out here to Missouri in 2005, each time, higher winds have ruined any chances for a decent score.
I understand that more and more guys are starting to fly the stock in comps and are generally satisfied with them. A large percentage of those who purchase these birds come back for more.
I think it is more challenging to produce good stock bred to standard year after year than it is to fly in competition where no one "expects" anyone to win. Quite often the best kits don't.
So Katcher, call me and I will be happy to speak with you one on one. Posts like these speak more to an agenda you might have, otherwise, you would have simply called to speak with me if you really wanted to know. No? My apologies if I am wrong.
PS: I don't fly the NBRC Fall Fly due to risks from BOP.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Feb 18, 2009 10:33 PM
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
342 posts
Feb 18, 2009
10:26 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
I will have it for you by tommorrow, I just saw it recently....
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KATCHER
68 posts
Feb 18, 2009
11:28 PM
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okay thanx lipper for your help... ;)
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KATCHER
69 posts
Feb 18, 2009
11:29 PM
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and tony i will call you 2moreO after work...
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Dave Szab
234 posts
Feb 19, 2009
4:32 AM
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Tony,
I was just reading the 5 traits that you breed for above. Do you also breed for tight kitting and simultaneous performance? I find that these attributes can be lost easily if you ignore them in your breeding practices. Also, could you define what you mean by "joyous rolling behavior"?
You also state about competitions that quite often the best kits don't win, what do you think the reasons are for that? I'm just curious because in my extensive competition experience, as a flyer and a judge, it has been an extremely rare occurence that the best kit did not win.
Dave Szabatura
Last Edited by on Feb 19, 2009 5:48 AM
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Customkev
48 posts
Feb 19, 2009
7:50 AM
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Dave,
Tony may be talking about the weather coditions or a mis management occurance taking place on competition day causing the ruby's not to shine with their true luster as a real ruby does? as a result of the lack of luster weather induced or other mis-management fault(best team not winning). That may be what he is talking about...Kev
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bigwilly
831 posts
Feb 19, 2009
7:55 AM
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It kills me the way everyone talks for Tony. Cracks me up
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BIG WILLY
TOPP FLIGHT/NCRC
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fhtfire
1808 posts
Feb 19, 2009
7:55 AM
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Dave,
I think what he means by Joyous rolling behavior...is the birds actually like to roll...they dont fight it..and they are not over coooked...that is one trait that I like about the Ruby's...and why I fly them....is they seem or appear to LIKE to roll...some birds you have to pull it out...the Rubys will roll no matter what....I can open the door on any give day and they will put on some sort of show....fed up or not....and comp prep is not a huge issue....you do some little tricks that get them more active...
As far as kitting with Rubys and concert performance...never had a kitting issue in my loft...and concert performance is AOK...never had a problem with that....those that have seen my birds will tell you that....
I am totally happy with the Ruby Rollers or I would not have them...and YES...I did order two pairs from Tony......He is putting birds together that follow that same branch as the Ruby Rollers in my Stock loft...My Morts outnumber my Ruby's and my Pure Rubys are starting to get old...so I wanted to keep some pure blood in the bull pen....anyway...this is how I explain the RUby rollers
They are as good as any and better then many...
As far as sometimes the best kit does not win...in my short time in comp...I have seen it a bunch of times....the best kit gets wind....get chased off by BOP.....etc...seen it...
As far as comps....two comps a year are not a measuring stick of how good ones birds are.....that is having your birds on 2 days out of 365.....is not a measuring stick...using comps as a stick...is a double edged sword....have a couple low scores and your birds suck....NOT TRUE....the scores do not say what happened on the fly....I have a couple 15's LOL....and the birds were on..but 28mph winds wont let you score..LOL..anyway...if you win your birds are nails...anyway.....
I am happy with them...ROck and ROLL
Paul
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Silkies_Roller
7 posts
Feb 19, 2009
9:44 AM
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Paul just curious. If you really like them Ruby why crossed them. Aren't they already to the top top Max. If there's still an empty slot in them birds. Why you crossed diff. blood to them Ruby. Mind to share. Is that another trait, that why you crossed a different blood to them and did so well in Comp. Fly./ W/C Fly.
Would you Had established a Family that is more Better then Ruby. Will you makes a site and sell your birds.
Just a confuse, Not asking for troubles.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3087 posts
Feb 19, 2009
10:24 AM
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Oh the pettiness, envy and agendas...here they come. LOL
Hey Silkies Roller, no matter how you dress it, I read right through you and your type. Every once in a while guys like you try to find ways to dig and play gotcha!
It you have actually read these posts and done your research, you will find that Paul has said more than once that he does not want to ride anybodies coattails and wants to have his own bloodline from his own pairings.
Now "I" have never said these birds are top top. I don't HYPE my birds. Good birds today are not that hard to find, the trick is to know what to do with them once you have them. I take allot of calls and help my customers even when the sale is complete.
Paul and I have disagreed on more than 1 issue when it comes to getting the most from these birds. Everyone has their own ideas and methods to work with his birds. He has his, I have mine. What he wanted was good stock in which to work on his program.
With rollers, it is not always an "either this or its that" proposition, Paul has a philosophy of mixing birds from families when it serves his purpose to do so.
I don't believe I need to add anything to the birds, but Paul likes more chest muscle in his birds and so uses the Emani birds to do that for him (I think there might be another feature he wants from the Emani birds but I forget what it is).
Paul wants his birds to come in from performing looking fresh and tight. I like my birds to come in looking like they left nothing in reserve. Is one of us right or wrong? No, simply a different approach and view. I think you are trying to make a point where there is none. But lets see what Paul has to say.
I think it is a little insulting to ask Paul if he is going to sell birds, especially when he donates so many to others and is such an ambassador for the fancy. Otherwise, it is just none of your business.
Okay, I just probably lost some more customers for my rant! :-( Sorry.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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harrison
198 posts
Feb 19, 2009
10:47 AM
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sounds like evryone is trying to get your back up today tony? lol hope you accepted my opolagy. spelt wrong sorry. harrison uk
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tthoj
6 posts
Feb 19, 2009
11:01 AM
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I like how Tony respond back to the people in here that questions his birds ability to perform or whatsoever. He doesnt go all wild saying that if you dont like my bird than forget you. He explain to them in a professional way. This will definitly help me(newbie) become a better roller fancier. Good to see expert talk it out.
Thomas
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harrison
202 posts
Feb 19, 2009
11:16 AM
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welcome aboard tom. I am also a newbie and let me tell you that this place his great. ANY GUESTION regarding rollers will be answerd. with about 30 points. Yes tony does do a good job on here.harrison uk.
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bman
644 posts
Feb 19, 2009
11:21 AM
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I wasn't going to get involved in this thread seeing as Tony is capable of taking care of his own business.
But seeing as I have had the pleasure of sitting across from Tony at his house and talking rollers besides the phone calls. I will tell you that there is no one any more passionate about his birds.Any bird he sells would be in his kit box other wise.
Telling you I have rubys and that I am very happy with them means nothing since I am not one of the "experts". But I put as much value in the person as I do the stock!! Tony has always been willing to help & offer advice on any pigeon topic wether your a customer or not! Just my opinion.
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Ron
Borderline lofts
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roller alley
99 posts
Feb 19, 2009
12:09 PM
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sorry KATCHER my response wasnt to the actual question,it was for the way i thought the thread was going to go from the first response,i wasnt speaking for TONY i was giving my .02 and i do hope to fly this year if i did my home work last year.i should know shortly.im not planning to come out on top just gain experience my birds are not well established like yours and others but we'll see
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2511 posts
Feb 19, 2009
12:44 PM
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Paul did mention many times why he cross his birds with the Ruby's just hit the search button you will find it.
one was that he wanted to make his own name as Tony stated above two was that he saw something that would balance his familys one had this he like and the other had something he like . because not all family's are perfect he took a chance because he has 1,experience in breeding with livestock ,2 he is smart enough to keep a side thing to experiment with and if it don't work he still has the originals to go back to. he said that he was lucky that it work out fine for him. so Silkies you said just confuse you not asking for trouble but then you went and said this" Would you Had established a Family that is more Better then Ruby. Will you makes a site and sell your birds " Paul never said he wanted to sell his birds so why even ask that let alone make his own site..now I know you didn't ask me but since Paul isn't here now I thought I have his back until he can answer .that's what we do here watch each others back when need be..
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Ralph
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2512 posts
Feb 19, 2009
12:47 PM
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Tony you probably lost one but gain two..
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Ralph
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fhtfire
1809 posts
Feb 19, 2009
12:48 PM
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I will answer the question in a bit...I am putting up my crosses as we speak...LOL...got to go see them work...Explanation in a bit....
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3090 posts
Feb 19, 2009
12:49 PM
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Paul, why does that last post sound like you have cereal in your mouth? LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3091 posts
Feb 19, 2009
12:58 PM
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Hey Toughrollers, you guys down under have some nads! Just for the record, I had nothing to do with that! LOL Hope you are enjoying them. Let me know if you have any questions about working with them. Good Luck!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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fhtfire
1811 posts
Feb 19, 2009
2:43 PM
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As far as selling birds.....yes I do sell birds every now and then...My first round is always sold...no matter what..and that is just my game plan....and I will usually sell my last round of the year....ONLY if my breeders are up to it...I run a tight ship and I will not waste my breeders or stress them to make a buck...I have only lost one breeder in all my breeding so far and I feel that is because I have no problem shutting them down...I usually sell to locals or the occasional out of state folk that I know...but I have had people ask years ago and still do not have my birds...just because I do not breed for sale...and well...I shut them down and that is that....I do donate lots of birds to auctions and pigeon shows....and I give birds away to new guys...
I will never breed anybody a pure ruby roller so dont ask...ain't happening...Tony is a friend and I believe in KARMA>..LOL..Ruby Rollers are Tony's hard work and you need to get them from him...I do not sell birds to undercut anybody and never will.....Usually 1 round leaves my loft in a year and sometimes two.....but I also feel that I should pay it forward like others did for me...so to sum it up...I will not build a website and sell birds....and my birds are not better then pure Morts or Pure Rubys......my birds like I said....are as good as any and better then a many...and so are Tony's Morts Campbells....damn near most the people on this site have the birds to do it..it is a matter of figuring it out.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Silkies_Roller
8 posts
Feb 19, 2009
3:19 PM
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good response Paul. I'm Shut Up now. lol.
But I think it's better to sell bird and do well in Flys. Makes sense of spending that $$$ JHMO
Last Edited by on Feb 19, 2009 3:19 PM
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fhtfire
1812 posts
Feb 19, 2009
3:47 PM
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Silkies,
Doing good in a fly twice a year does not mean anything at all....The fly scores do not show what happens in flys....bad weather....BOP attack etc....if you look at my finals score a couple years back is shows a DQ....it does not say what happened....I had 130 or something raw points in 9 minutes and two birds hit each other in the air..I did not witness it...but Joe Urbon saw it as well as the judge....and basically...a cock that was the leader of the pack...rolled and hit another bird...it hurt him bad to wear he came straight down and the other bird he hit followed..that bird had NEVER come down before and never after that day...but it was a DQ....but if you see the DQ..you think well...bad feeding etc...so I had the point and the rest of the team kept working..but shit happens.....one year my birds were rolling like crazy in 20 mph winds...Ron Mann...could not score me..but he said he wanted to see the birds when there was no wind..becuase they were still trying ot break in the wind..but they were to far out....another year...birds were of fire...David Vang was the judge...got hit by a falcon and Cooper at the same time...ruined the whole fly..but the points show that the birds sucked..but that was not the case...so you cant go by points on how good a team is....especially on two flys out of the year....I have seen Scott Campbells birds fly on the left wing and only score a handfull of points..yet I have seen that same team light it up......I have judged teams....I was judging the bay area.....Mike Wolden had a team of birds that were great..but a hawk chased them up...and I could not judge what I could not see...again..the score does not show the quality of the birds....
So doing well in flys does not mean crap...testimonials are what it is about..by people that either see the birds day in and day out....or have witnessed them in action.....or others that have done well in flys..
The term any given sunday comes from what I just spoke of.....I have seen NFL teams that were in last place beat a first place team...does that mean that the 1st place team sucks...NOPE...or how about the Sacramento Kings beating the Lakers awhile back..the worst team in the league..does that mean the Lakers suck...NOPE...get my point....so....and even not entering comps does not mean you have crap....what if Scott Campbell or Abel Ibarra decided to not enter comps for a couple years...do there birds all of a sudden lack what you want because of a comp..NOPE...get what I am saying...Hope that makes sense..
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Scott
1755 posts
Feb 19, 2009
4:17 PM
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Can you guage it off of one fly ? no , but over the years the cream most certainly does rise to the top.
(So doing well in flys does not mean crap..).
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
343 posts
Feb 19, 2009
4:27 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
We know Scott, you are the cream...LOL
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Scott
1757 posts
Feb 19, 2009
5:10 PM
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Actualy Mike I was thinking more along the lines of guys like Heine and Oullette, there is a reason why some do and some never will.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
1758 posts
Feb 19, 2009
6:52 PM
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More times than not you are able to make your own luck has been my experiance.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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winwardrollers
144 posts
Feb 19, 2009
8:15 PM
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Is there a.. condensed version.. to Paul post.. lol
Guys like someone state above.. no family of rollers are perfect.
Find a family of birds that closes resembles your feed and training patterns..this way you can train the birds instead of the birds training you.
I like the looks of Tony's birds from the pictures.
Tony's has put together a good thing with the site as well.
Bye the way ..Good questions guys...I enjoyed it..Tony may not have but..I did.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Feb 19, 2009 8:31 PM
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RodSD
193 posts
Feb 19, 2009
8:37 PM
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I am thinking that Tony is someone you can buy high quality rollers from, but doesn't compete anymore. But decided to keep his rollers with higher, competition standard. I don't have any of his rollers so I am not promoting him.
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katyroller
346 posts
Feb 19, 2009
8:48 PM
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There are folks on this thread that are changing their tune. Reading these posts, it sounds like competition flying doesn't prove who has the best birds after all. Go back to the posts about backyard fliers and at least one of you guys was preaching that a flier who didn't compete, couldn't have good birds.
There are backyard fliers who don't compete and sell their birds to guys that compete and do good. Don't believe me? Ask Paul F. about Mort Emami.
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3092 posts
Feb 19, 2009
8:51 PM
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Isn't wonderful being the dock? Be back later to respond in more depth. By the way, Katcher, never heard back from you. LOL
Toughrollers, I have a pretty busy weekend coming up, but I would like to talk to you about the Rubys privately some time next week if it is ok with you.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3093 posts
Feb 19, 2009
9:06 PM
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Hey Katy, I just saw your above post, I bet that happens more than people know. Look, Pensom liked the aerial standard of the Birmingham Roller; it was good enough for him, why not me?: The true Birmingham Roller which turns over backward with inconceivable rapidity through a considerable distance like a spinning ball". Any roller fancier who has their druthers can breed toward this standard and it has nothing to do with competition.
If a person believes that it is only through competition that the BR improves, than he becomes limited by his own belief system. If we can see possibilities where others see walls, then we have the potential for progress.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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katyroller
347 posts
Feb 19, 2009
9:16 PM
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Tony, I share the same thinking that you do as far as being able to breed to the standard and still maintain quality. Go back to my posts during the "put up or shut up" wars and you will see that this was what I was saying all along. Unfortunately there were some that were vehement in their disagreement and alot of bickering took place that should not have. I believe there were several folks that quit posting after it was all said and done. Hopefully these folks did not leave the hobby!
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tthoj
7 posts
Feb 19, 2009
9:40 PM
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Hey I been following this post and I like all the post so far. Fhtfire, truly knows what he is saying(IMO) and I have read some post in the past of him talking about the same thing. I enjoy reading post like this. I believe the same thing of what fhtfire said(although I havent yet fly in comp.). very Long but very interesting.
Thomas
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3094 posts
Feb 19, 2009
9:49 PM
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Hey Katyroller, this was bound to come out. I knew eventually someone would ask about competition and my birds and I would have to provide a premise for my position and do battle. lol I even wrote about this in the premier issue of the Roller Pigeon Digest and discuss what I think is a fallacy in the position that only comp flyers uphold the aerial standard.
In a nutshell, comp flying is interesting in that it teaches you how to get maximum performance from a kit on a specific day. Beyond that it is a great time to gather with like-minded souls and talk rollers. I think I hear the keyboards clacking away! LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Feb 19, 2009 9:50 PM
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winwardrollers
145 posts
Feb 19, 2009
10:16 PM
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Katyroller...You stated .."There are backyard fliers who don't compete and sell their birds to guys that compete and do good. Don't believe me? Ask Paul F. about Mort Emami."
Not sure you know what your Talking about after that statement then Tony's response after about the backyard.. hoopla.
Morteza Emami Lived in my area of competition Flying and I have been to his house a number of times. He had a small place back in 1995 that was great for flying rollers but then moved next.. to the mountains. were there were cliffs.. rock ledges.. a few blocks from his house..you can guess the story from here.
You.. can not.. tell me that Mort didn't learn from flying comps.
The comp vs. Backyard is not even a good debate. Comp guys can do what the backyard guy can do and more..and that is ok.. enjoy your bird how you like.
Katyroller if you are worried about folks quiting and not posting..is that not.. the reason they are backyarder's in the first place...this is not what the thread is about so I will end.
My question is where did Mort or Tony get a good start from...Not the County Fair.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Feb 20, 2009 6:39 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3097 posts
Feb 19, 2009
10:35 PM
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Hey winwardrollers, I think there are 4 basic kinds of roller fanciers:
1: Fanciers that breed for the Ideal or aerial standard who don't compete
2: Fanciers who breed for birds to maximize kit scoring on flydays
3: Fanciers who enjoy keeping roller pigeons
4: Fanciers who are a combination of all the above
JMO
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by on Feb 19, 2009 10:35 PM
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KATCHER
72 posts
Feb 19, 2009
11:05 PM
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FLY ON!! LOL
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winwardrollers
147 posts
Feb 19, 2009
11:07 PM
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Tony
I agree with you..but also see underline reasons why people are backyarders..it just my observation.
It a Free country at the time. People do what they please.
Bwinward
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
344 posts
Feb 19, 2009
11:22 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Scott, dont cut yourself short...You have quite an impressive record, one of the best in my opinion... I just dont know how you can stand to look at those same ugly colors day in and day out...LOL. I can send you a pinky if you like..LOL
Actualy Mike I was thinking more along the lines of guys like Heine and Oullette, there is a reason why some do and some never will.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Flipmode
355 posts
Feb 20, 2009
3:36 AM
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Hey Tony, I say video record that #1 kit and post it. That way everyone will see what them Ruby Rollers are made of. Then all the wondering will disappear!
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