yang501424
244 posts
Apr 08, 2009
7:05 PM
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I have a hen who bred 2 round with 2 different cocks and each round one of the young had blood in the eye when they started to come into the roll. Now I was told never stock a bird with blood in the eye or is breeding birds with blood in the eye. I want to know what is negative about this and what would you do in this case? Don't breed the hen anymore? Thanks Ying
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Chris Thompson
8 posts
Apr 08, 2009
7:11 PM
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Ying, I was always told that blood in the eye eventually meant rolldowns. This is why I wont stock a bird with blood in its eye. Withmy line though I have never had this problem anyways. Be careful though and defintely keep an eye out on those birds before stocking them.
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yang501424
245 posts
Apr 08, 2009
7:21 PM
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Thanks Chris, it makes sense now. The birds were coming into the roll to early for its age and this family of birds doesn't come in that early. And also thinking of it, the other birds around there age is only flipping. Most birds coming in to early will eventually find its way down to the ground. Ying
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Good Game Loft
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Chris Thompson
9 posts
Apr 08, 2009
7:22 PM
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No problem Ying. Good luck.
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155
1008 posts
Apr 08, 2009
7:31 PM
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i had a hen that got some blood in here eye, i stop her from flying for 2day now she flying agian no more blood in her eyes..
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EVILLOFT'S
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yang501424
246 posts
Apr 08, 2009
7:43 PM
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Yea my birds eye cleared the next day and never happen since. Most or all of us here is working toward perfection in our birds and one of them is by eliminating negative traits. I want to know how many would call a bird with blood in the eye culls? Maybe fly it if its good but just never stock it.
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Good Game Loft
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2833 posts
Apr 08, 2009
8:18 PM
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Yang I'm with you on your post #246...
I never had one but from what I read blood in the eyes from rolling fast its a weak eye vessel and it is a bad trait that you don't want passing on..
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Ralph.
miss opportunity are the curse of potential well if opportunity is not knocking you build the door...
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Hector Coya
457 posts
Apr 08, 2009
8:49 PM
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Just last month i had a bird that rolles so fast,it was one of the fasted rollers ive had in many years,
I was flying it one day and noticed it whent out of the kit,it started to fly in small sircles and coming down fast,it landed pn the street.I whent and picked it up,and thats when i saw it had blood on both eyes.
i let that bird rest for a few days and flew it again,It has never done that again.
To me if it only does it once its not that big of a problem,If you whould see this bird roll you could understant why it did that,this bird is fast.
hector Coya-SGVS
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The more i know mankind,the more i love my Dog,
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Scott
1994 posts
Apr 08, 2009
9:23 PM
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Hector, there is no excuse, I don't care how fast it is, I have seen birds not all that fast do it also, when ever I catch myself making excuses for a pigeon I reflect back to those that were just as good or better that didn't have any problems.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2009 9:37 PM
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yang501424
247 posts
Apr 08, 2009
9:48 PM
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Good post Scott. Culls for stock?
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Good Game Loft
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
223 posts
Apr 08, 2009
11:03 PM
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Hector Coya- You are correct in waiting and flying it again. They usually will stop spinning blood and become fine kit birds.JDA
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J_Star
1954 posts
Apr 09, 2009
4:51 AM
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I agree with Scott on this one.
Jay
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Leo
Member
92 posts
Apr 09, 2009
7:35 AM
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Scott, and I have disagreed on this one,So here we are again,, Remember HECTOR said the "key" word: FAST :the fastest hes had in many yrs,,,Scott never has this problem,,,now you know why?...AS for youngsters rolling blood !? we are breeding youngsters and birds to roll before they are even MATURE!!!Not even molted the first time,and they are turning and trying to roll and their bodys arent ready for it,,,..as for blood in the eye in no way does it mean 'rolldown'...Many times birds are ;bumped; in arriving and leaving the kit box,they get bumped in the air also,,,,many guys believe Scotts theory and Cull these birds..but experienced breeders of "FAST ROLLERS" know better....JUST MY OPINION...LEO
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Scott
1996 posts
Apr 09, 2009
8:02 AM
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No I never get them Leo , at least not out of this family as it was never tolorated, some birds that I used to fly years ago had it popping up because they thought the same as yourself.
Leo, I will smoke you for speed every which way, not talk, fact , I will also fly my finest against that bird of Hectors,we can even put a few bucks on it if you like , but the question is can that bird hold up for such a challange with such a fault ? can yours ? What about you JDA ,you want in on this ?
This is called putting the rubber to the road, talk comes cheap.
( Scott never has this problem,,,now you know why?...)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2009 8:52 AM
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
228 posts
Apr 09, 2009
8:22 AM
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Scott with that, I would have to get back to you on any challenge for I just got my family of birds back and have started my breeding program. But thanks for asking.JDA
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winwardrollers
221 posts
Apr 09, 2009
8:36 AM
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Blood in the eye is something that I would breed away from. Some say bird rolls so fast that eye ruptures, some say wing hit eye...what is interesting is that the great birds don't have eye problems...why not just use a birds that doesn't have the problem.
I have noticed that rollers with blood in there eye roll as if they are trying to get away from it, it peak them to roll more and hard than they normally would in defence to get away from some thing they can not get away from.
I would say that it is just a weak eye and would not want to spread that gene in to the future of my rollers. I use to have this problem and found that simpley breeding away was the best. It just an eye problem the rest to the bird can function just fine..breeding birds with this problem makes selection when pairing breeders more of a problem.
Some say that it is a one time thing..rested bird doesn't come back...I have found that it does it may be a year but it come back...and passes it on to the next generation when breed.
I don't like medicating or babing the birds simple culling the weak and move on with the best.
bwinward
bwinward
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0221
161 posts
Apr 09, 2009
8:49 AM
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yang501424,
In answer to Your question, If You have a pair or a bird that produces youngsters that roll blood in there eyes, I wouldn't use them in stock. It is a weakness. I've seen it clear up in a matter of hours and the bird be flown again with no ill effects. If the birds goes on to be a solid kitt pigeon, continue to fly it and enjoy it. The bird just isn't a good choice for the breeding coop,nor is any other pigeon with weakness's. But keep a eye on that pigeon because I'll bet in time you'll find some other reason to pull it out that You think is unrelated to that eye.
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2009 8:56 AM
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yang501424
248 posts
Apr 09, 2009
11:15 AM
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Well today I flew the bird that had blood in the eye and it rolled when it flew out of the kitbox and hit the ground. Was about 3 feet off the ground only. Bumper I guess.
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Good Game Loft
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Leo
Member
93 posts
Apr 09, 2009
11:23 AM
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HEY SCOTT,..Of course we know why Scott never has this problem, the word is SPEED! YOU said so YOURSELF! quote: "VELOSITY" is NOT my # 1 preference in my birds,unquote: Now with being "caught in your own trap"...LOL..LOL..LOL.You have the audacity,an gall, to challenge Birmingham Roller Breeders that are dedicated to the preservation of what these birds truly are???..What are you gonna use??.no way your Comp Birds can do it...I think you owe Hector an appology, You "stepped in it"! He never mentioned your name,or your birds in any way,...I guess its just your opinion.....JUST MY OPINION....LEO
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Scott
1999 posts
Apr 09, 2009
11:47 AM
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Leo , a 1,000 bucks says different, looser pays the judges expenses, personly I want style with speed,show me the qoute that you made up above.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2009 12:02 PM
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Alohazona
603 posts
Apr 09, 2009
2:24 PM
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Blood in the eye may very well be a one time isolated instance or it could be prevalant in the blood.
I have only seen this once in my main bloodline,a small very fast cock.I have bred close to a hundred pigeons off of the pair that produced this bird in particular.It was a one time thing and was over a year closer to two years ago.In that time the bird has only gotten better and better.The nestmate to that bird is a hen that is on her father ,and throw nice birds with the exception of some webbed toes here and there.Basically I am saying that blood runs the thickest through my loft and only this one bird.Of course there are many good birds to breed from,but I would not shy away from it for a few rounds to see what comes out.In this case,I would have nothing to loose,because he would be going back into the kitbox.
I would not feel this way,if there were others showing blood in the eye,but we are talking about hundreds over the years.That's alot of birds to put against this one.The speed and the quality in this pigeon is worth a try....Aloha,Todd
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2009 2:25 PM
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Leo
Member
94 posts
Apr 09, 2009
3:11 PM
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Scott, Its all catching up with you,Your blowing "SMOKE" hard as you can,!!!! We were talking blood problems, and you went "nutsy" making challenges and you, Know YOU DID make the statements i refer to..as far as flying, you realize i dont comp,fly...HOWEVER I fly like Pensom did,..so make no mistake! VELOSITY is #1 where i am concerned,and ive been doing it for 65 yrs and my Father 40 years before me..so over 100 yrs of velosity awaits your very best,and this lesson will be FREE! By the way! if you want me to find your post on velosity i will..IT wont look good on you when i find it!...JUST MY OPINION..PS..I havent seen any appology where its due??....LEO
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Scott
2001 posts
Apr 09, 2009
3:37 PM
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No need to find my post Leo, I know my position as it has never changed, I want style and balance first and foremost coupled with speed, a step down is thinking about nothing but speed, Leo, it isn't my style to just talk about about such things, I will call you out on the mat and walk the talk.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 09, 2009 5:01 PM
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SiDLoVE
395 posts
Apr 09, 2009
8:44 PM
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Blood in the eye pair or single bird, I'd get rid of the bird from the breeding loft. And continue only flying the bird with blood in the eye who has healed. Then slowly get rid of them all. Short term continue flying it , Long term get rid of it all or itll creep slowly into the family if u dont do something about it now! My view on things.
sIDLOVE
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ezeedad
935 posts
Apr 09, 2009
9:15 PM
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My experience with blood in the eyes is similar to Hector's. The bird was blazing fast.. In fact there were a couple out of the same pair that this happened to. I kept them in a few days and didn't have any more problems. I also bred from one these birds and she didn't produce any that threw blood into their eyes.
I think that the birds were not fully mature at the time they spun blood. Maybe that is why it happened. I have also had one whose head got swollen... similar thing I guess..broken blood vessels.
P Gomez
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JMUrbon
686 posts
Apr 11, 2009
5:29 PM
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Well speaking from personal experience I have seen Scotts birds on more than one accasion and I would have to say that the speed and quality are as good as anybodies. As for the non comp fliers and the comp fliers. Guys we are all breeding for the same thing so let that argument go. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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gotspin7
2361 posts
Apr 11, 2009
8:50 PM
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Leo, so when are you guys flying?
Paul, I had some in the past do the same thing (swell their heads) I removed them all, as I believe that is a weakness and not anything else. My reasoning behind it was that only one family at that time was suffering from this and had others just as fast or faster with no issues. Good luck!
Joe, I agree!
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Sal Ortiz
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ezeedad
939 posts
Apr 12, 2009
12:28 PM
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Sal,
I would have done the same as you if at the time I had ones just as fast but which didn't swell their heads.
Paul G
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gotspin7
2367 posts
Apr 12, 2009
1:49 PM
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Thanks Paul.
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Sal Ortiz
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
371 posts
Apr 12, 2009
3:08 PM
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Scott/Sal,
Couldn't agree with you more. It is a weakness plain and simple. I don't get them in my family and would never breed from it, not sure it would stay in the kit if it didn't have the correct style. Much rather have a fast, ball bearing smooth, tight H frame than a hyper velocity axle roller or even an A frame. Style presents a quality that overwhelms speed!!
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Leo
Member
95 posts
Apr 13, 2009
10:50 AM
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Please tell me about the "swelled heads"did they crash comming out?? or rolldown??or too hyper??or were they really that fast?? You guys are loosing me...I know it wasnt from BROKEN BLOOD VESSELS! and thats a fact!...LEO
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
233 posts
Apr 13, 2009
12:28 PM
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Leo the swolled head is from bumping into other birds while rolling,or going through a tree and bumping. I have had it happen both ways. JDA
Last Edited by on Apr 15, 2009 3:37 PM
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Leo
Member
96 posts
Apr 13, 2009
2:00 PM
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JDA, Thanks for that information,BUT I want answers from the 'Campbelites'who just posted it!...SALAS,you said, She is just weak ?...where?? explain to me the weakness! I think you guys had better re-read my post above very closely...And howbout using some 'good common sense' and think for yourself!Ive spent yrs testing and expiermenting on birds like this and cured birds of other querks and cured ailments through testing etc.And dont make the mistake of saying 'BLOOD VESSELS'caused it!!!...LEO
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ezeedad
946 posts
Apr 13, 2009
9:00 PM
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Leo,
I believe the birds heads were swollen as result of increased blood pressure.. like when they get blood in their eyes. They get blood in their eyes without crashing into objects or other birds,,,Right?
They were exceptionally fast... and that was my conclusion at the time. I wouldn't swear on a Bible that it was purely from speed/cappilaries,etc... but that was my conclusion.
Paul G
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Fire Brewed Rollers
64 posts
Apr 15, 2009
3:27 PM
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Most of the birds I find with swollen heads bumped coming out or landing. The ones I get with blood in the eye appears to be related to pure speed and under a year old, can't remember ever getting a slow bird with blood in its eyes. I get 5 or 6 a year with blood in the eye. The blood in the eye could be related to hitting in the air but it is too hard to tell. I have seen lots of birds hit in the air, very common. Lock they down a week or two and they will normally OK after that.
Robert Miller
Fire Brewed Rollers
SGVS
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
374 posts
Apr 15, 2009
4:02 PM
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Somebody has been screwing with this thread. Several posts are missing. Still waiting for Leo to present his scientific evidence that it is not a genetic weakness.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Leo
Member
97 posts
Apr 16, 2009
7:16 AM
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Joe, I spent a great deal of time in an attempt to start a question & answer forum on this subject,But it seems my efforts were on here for a day(mabe)!Then was deleted?? along with 2 other posts??I thought a Q&A would keep things in good order,and a good understandng to all who asked any questions,But after being "BOOTED" My intensions were to never enter this site any more,But i felt I should at least answer your post....REGARDS...LEO
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Leo
Member
98 posts
Apr 16, 2009
9:58 AM
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P.S. This is about the 4th or 5th time my information has been deleted,so dont think I gave up easy!There is more here than meets the eye!!!so im out!
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j .wanless
732 posts
Apr 16, 2009
11:18 AM
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hi all
i used to get a lot of birds about 15 years ago that would get blood in thier eyes.mostly it was off birds that come on the roll early + rolled very fast.but ive also seen it in birds that did not roll that fast.
so there for believe it is a weak blood vessel.but since i stopped breeding off the parents that produced these birds i have not had it in a lot of years.
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winwardrollers
223 posts
Apr 16, 2009
5:18 PM
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John
I stopped breeding parents as well and have not had it show up...something has to be weak in the eye to cause it to film over.
bwinward
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Norm_Knox
304 posts
Apr 16, 2009
9:17 PM
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To my understanding there are two ways for a bird to get blood in its eye!
1. Bird bumping/hitting something
2. Weak blood vassels in the eye (which in turn is a genetic fault in my book)
I would strongly advise against breeding from a such bird.
Just my two cents,
Norm
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N/A Loft
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Alohazona
607 posts
Apr 16, 2009
11:00 PM
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Norm,
How can you recommend not breeding from such a bird,when you have not done so???When you have seen 2 to 4 birds bred off such a pair,wouldn't that be a solid recommendation,especially when it can happen from a bird smacking something.
Brad,the only time I have seen a bird with an eye filmed over is when it has definetly/undeniablely smacked something.
Aloha,Guys....Todd
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winwardrollers
224 posts
Apr 17, 2009
8:34 AM
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Todd
You stated
"the only time I have seen a bird with an eye filmed over is when it has definetly/undeniablely smacked something."
I can see that as a good reason for blood in eye.
I have also breed birds that get blood in eye that came from same parentage...Know this because I keep records. It could be that it was the same accident that brother/sister birds were involved in therefor thought it was coming down the gene pool.
What I have not found sucess in.... which some of you say that you have been able to refly birds with blood in eye...doesn't work for me the blood always seems to come back and have chosen to cull.
bwinward
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Leo
Member
99 posts
Apr 17, 2009
12:51 PM
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You guys will disagree,till the cows come home,AS I have said:I have what you guys are discussing,,,SO! let me add a little info to think about,,I am telling you from more than 60 yrs expierence,as posted above! I have a beautiful white PEARL EYED cock bird the eye is (absolutely) without any other color! I examined his bro and AGAIN the perfect pearl eye,,,however the third brother was a different story it appeared pearl in most of the center, but was "rose" colored around the outer edge..The eye is what I called a rose eye this bird was mature but only a yr old,the other two were 2&3 yrs older...Upon some outside help an expertese, close examination we found the rose color came from thousands of "minute"blood vessels around the outer edge,,,,THESE ARE NOT KIT BIRDS these are birds that I was breeding for color,,they would kit an spin (pure Pensom) birds,,if I wished to fly them...AND how EASY it would be to just lightly bump and get blood in the eye!!! TO finish,.. I watched this youngster develope and WAS NOT suprised to see him develope into another cock with PERFECT PEARL EYES about a yr later...! Now! back to part of the reason the eye problem {are we asking and or breeding for too early performers}??? IS it a weakness or stupitidy on our part???? Thats probably why Pensom once said a Champion seldom rolls in his first yr..all this sounds like a lesson??
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Norm_Knox
306 posts
Apr 17, 2009
1:09 PM
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Hey Todd,
I guess I need to get my words straight. LOL
What I meant to say is that if you have a bird that rolls and doesnt hit anything and still has blood in the eye there is something wrong there. If you take two birds and they both roll wit the same velocity but one gets bloody eye (not hitting anything just rolling) than dont you think there is something wrong there.
Now what we all need to consider is there are many factors that can play in this. Such as bird hurting its eye in the kit box or something of such sort, and because of that it gets a bloody eye.
To me if there is nothing wrong with birds eye and it gets bloody from spin there is something wrong there!!!
Todd please write your input on this as you are VERY knowledgable man and I respect your opinion. As well as I would be able to learn something from you and would be very happy to.
Norm
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N/A Loft
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0221
187 posts
Apr 17, 2009
2:32 PM
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Leo, Pensom said lots of things. He wrote, if a bird becomes a champion at 3 months or so. To breed it to a bird that comes in later. I'm sure thats not an exact quote, But check it out in the writings of W.H.Pensom. I believe writen by Tom Monson. Something else that confused Me in the same writing. I believe the Monson's said that they we're
at Pensom's house and a bird came rolling down through the tree's. Bill said, don't worry bout Him, He's CHAMPION. ( CHAMPION)?
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2009 4:10 PM
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Scott
2045 posts
Apr 17, 2009
7:26 PM
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Many of my finest show their true potential from 18 mo on, even so they will show you enough in the first year to hold on to them, many of the young hotshots are nowhere to be found come that second year,I have no clue what is written below has to do with a fault such as rolling blood in the eye.
(Thats probably why Pensom once said a Champion seldom rolls in his first yr..all this sounds like a lesson?? )
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 17, 2009 7:37 PM
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Norm_Knox
310 posts
Apr 17, 2009
7:32 PM
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Scott I would add that it depends from family to family. My old Pensom birds tend to come in at 8 to 10 months and show their full potencial. While my Higgins family birds come in early at 4 to 7 months with control. But I still like my Pensom quality of spin in my birds.
Norm
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N/A Loft
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Scott
2047 posts
Apr 17, 2009
7:39 PM
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Norm, what I am talking about is birds that polish off as if hitting overdrive, if a bird isn't showing solid potential by 10 mo. here,it aint coming
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2864 posts
Apr 17, 2009
8:17 PM
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lol that's funny 0221..I can just imagine that,, seeing a bird crashing down through the tree and you say Oh,don't don't worry bout Him, He's CHAMPION
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Ralph.
The greatest use of your life is so you live your life so that the use of your life will outlive your life, In other words what you going to leave behind legacy or Dust....
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