macsrollers
73 posts
May 20, 2009
9:56 PM
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There are certain situations where you know how the judge judges and you have the luxury to be able to have enough birds to choose from to put together a team that suits that judge's style. I am not big on a judge using a milisecond stop watch to judge depth or duration of roll/spin. It may be a milisecond stop watch but can a human, even with practice, react to a break in a milisecond to push the button to start and stop the milisecond watch! Wouldn't it be great if a human judge didn't need to be used and technology such as computer programed high tech video cameras from several angles linked to high tech timers, etc. were developed and used to spit out a unbiased result based solely on programed standards set to measure by! Actually, it wouldn't be so great in my mind as part of the fun and competition is the human element. When a human uses a stop watch to measure an important factor of the scoring criteria such as depth and duration to consider a break scorable the time measured cannot be accurate due to human reaction time to start and finish that mechanical device. While we have to start a timer for time in and time flown that is different as a 1/2 second delay in activating and/or stopping it doesn't influence the score. My kit right now overall is very short(10'- 20') due to losing my deeper birds from my #1 team to the falcon. But they are also nice quality and fast, at least the top 6 or 7 are. Using a 1 second minimum by some high tech stop watch to consider a scorable break, then adding adding another 1/2 to 3/4 seconds at best due to human reaction time may not be good for a shorter performing kit. I guess I will find out in 11 days. Seems like not alot of happy campers out there so far! But as always, as long as the judge is consistent from kit to kit then that is all I can ask for, whether I agree with their judging style or not. And I will make sure and have fun on fly day good or bad because when the results of flying competition outweigh the fun of the hobby then it is time to get out and I am not ready to get out. I have been there before and had to step back and get the proper perspective before I started competing again! Either way, good subject to magnify the need to improve the scoring criteria and build some type of training opportunity for those who are interested in judging these competitions!
Last Edited by on May 20, 2009 9:58 PM
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TimP
180 posts
May 21, 2009
9:41 AM
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Mac, I'm not saying he was using the stop watch during the fly. I'm not sure as I was watching the kits as well. I'm saying that he explained to me how it was a tool in how he set up his format for judging. I know I messed around with a watch a couple of times a few years back just to see, I had this small hen that seemed to be holding the roll as long as some other birds that were showing seperation, and I was right. I think she was just lighter and faster and just did't drop as far.
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3441 posts
May 21, 2009
11:47 AM
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John,
I remember Pete winning it. He and Mr. Mosely are some of my favorite people.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3442 posts
May 21, 2009
11:48 AM
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Scott,
Quality birds that are not frequent? Aren't those called stiffs(LOL)?
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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macsrollers
75 posts
May 21, 2009
8:41 PM
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Thanks for clarifying the stop watch use or non-use of the watch! I have had birds like the hen you described. Extremely fast and seem to stand still when they spin! Blink your eyes and you may miss it! Obviously I want more depth then the 10' blur, but I know what you are talking about with your hen.
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wishiwon2
194 posts
May 21, 2009
8:45 PM
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Macsrollers said:
"But as always, as long as the judge is consistent from kit to kit then that is all I can ask for, whether I agree with their judging style or not. And I will make sure and have fun on fly day good or bad because when the results of flying competition outweigh the fun of the hobby then it is time to get out and I am not ready to get out. I have been there before and had to step back and get the proper perspective before I started competing again!"
Good post and great attitude! Thats how I feel about it ... usually, lol. Sometimes we take ourselves too seriously.
--------
Jon
"had fun, wish i won 2"
If it were easy, everybody would do it ...
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Rick Mee
27 posts
May 21, 2009
10:27 PM
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Hey guys, I don't get in here much so don't expect a follow up reply to this post. LOL
I spent several days with Hannes due to a last minute scheduling change, really got to pick his brain. I did of course watch him score my kit, if they aren't precisely working together then you don't get scored, he hates waterfall. I had a bird come out of the kit at 5 minutes and it stayed below the kit which kept the kit from wanting to work. If that bird would have stayed in I may have scored close to 30 breaks, they did 8 the first 5 minutes before that darn bird was hit by another bird rolling and just would not get back in. Now my kit was not on, so I got to see him judge them under those conditions and totally agree with what he scored them. I was fortunate enough to have him watch them the next morning and they did what a kit is supposed to do, perfect weather conditions with overcast and cool air with no wind brought out the best in them. He commented on several 1/2 turns, even a few that he would have scored 3/4, but let me tell you, it was one of those days you only get a few times a year, I was just fortunate to share it with a fellow roller man.
I then came to realize what he really wants to see in the finals, it is not impossible my friends. Like someone else mentioned, he wants to see your birds hit the wall, absolutely no waterfall. He also mentioned that he likes to see them the same depth, honestly not sure if that has affected how he scores a break or not.
The guy obviously has seen a high quality kit of rollers that were really on, that became apparent while we discussed my kit overhead the morning of the day I took him to the airport.
If you want to score well with Hannes your birds will have to break together with no waterfall, fast and clean with good depth.
This man knows pigeons, I sure hope I get to see his one day.
Rick Mee
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yang501424
262 posts
May 21, 2009
11:42 PM
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Final scores compare to prelim hm... wonder if those scores in the hundreds are mostly waterfall thats being scored. Now we know whos really making it rain.
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Good Game Loft
Last Edited by on May 21, 2009 11:50 PM
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pigeon pete
305 posts
May 22, 2009
1:43 AM
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Hey Nick,
be carefull aout pulling our chains, we may just all compete one year just to show you, and you guys (apart from Scott) will not get a look in,lol
It is quite interesting to look at the results and compare. When you consider the numbers of flyers in each country that fly, last year mabe 20 or so maximum flyers in England, how many in the U.S? Maybe a couple of hundred?
We both had one flyer in the top 10!
I'm really trying to be fair but no, I've racked my brain but I can't remember the last time you kicked my ass in the WC, maybe it's my age affecting my memory? lol
Pete.
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j .wanless
773 posts
May 22, 2009
5:16 AM
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hi all
rick mee well done for been honest + for flying a great kit for hanness even if it was a day late.that kit will stay in his mind even if it did not count on the day.rick as ive said all along once that split second rule was kicked out on your side we would start to see more relistic scores.as it is a rule that none of us in the uk ever used.they have all to hit a brick wall or we dont score them.ive visited hanness a few times + seen good birds as ive seen in lots of people in africa.believe me theres lots of top quality kits in africa.im over there next may judging i cant wait.
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topnotch uk
493 posts
May 22, 2009
11:00 AM
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well said john
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Scott
2167 posts
May 22, 2009
6:10 PM
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Well we just sent him off today , as for his judging, it is more in line to what we are used too around here (at least in the past), he just simply wanted them breaking together and counting those that do it right, so naturally you will not see silly inflated scores like many of the regional scores.
When he saw a legit break of birds doing it correctly he scored it,when they didn't he wouldn't score them, when he saw a good bird he would make mention of it as we all do, he was a good judge and we need more like him.
For those of you that didn't like his judging, you may want to re-think your standards as they are obviously too low.
Scott.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on May 22, 2009 7:10 PM
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2969 posts
May 22, 2009
6:31 PM
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I don't compete but if I did thats the kind of judge I want..tell it like it is..
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Ralph.
The greatest use of your life is so you live your life so that the use of your life will outlive your life, In other words what you going to leave behind legacy or Dust....
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macsrollers
76 posts
May 23, 2009
9:50 PM
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Pigeon Pete. Try reacting to your birds breaking by starting a stop watch and then reacting when they finish the break by stopping a stop watch. Not anticipating the start and end of the break, but honestly reacting to a break as it happens. When I said 1/2 to 3/4 seconds that includes a total of time starting and stopping the watch. I don't think that is too far out of wack whether stoned or not. FYI, I stopped smoking weed years ago as it made me lazy, selfish, and I picked my friends by who had the best bud at the time. Not a great way to live your life day to day or choose your friends! To each their own! But if my memory serves me right my quality and depth multiplier was a little higher when I judged my birds stoned!
As far as the judge's style described by Rick Mee, I also do not like waterfall. I don't even like the 1/2 second rule. But the 1/2 second rule does exist and if some birds hit it 1/2 second after the initial birds break then that can mean 5' or so seperation that in my mind is at least a mini waterfall, but should be scorable under the current rules. I look at Hannes strict judging style, at least as described so far, as a positive thing as it is causing alot of people to debate the current rules,think about ways to certify judges, and all this will result in positive changes in the right direction- which in my mind is quality and birds that are actually rolling vs. activity breaks that can create the illusion that more birds are rolling then realy are. I look forward to flying my kit June 1st for him. I hope I have them ready to represent what they are capable of doing so that Hannes gets a fair opportunity to show me what he looks for in scoring a kit. Got hit by the falcon Thurs.(100 degree weather hasn't driven him away yet!) so the challenge is ahead!
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DHenderson
79 posts
May 24, 2009
1:11 AM
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This topic has been going on for YEARS. I wonder why they even use rules at all, as a judge can totally disregard using them and go with his own system of scoring whenever they see fit and also not even bother to tell you what they saw at your in your kit.
I know judging is a thankless job for the most part but if there are written rules in place they need to follow them. If the rules need changed they should change them plan and simple.
I personally think that the rules have been the unraveling of this (WC) event for years and it appears to be on a downslide still. I have heard that England is flying less due to the way it's judged and I would bet that many other regions have had a down hill slide over the last 5-6 years based solely on how the judge handled the event.
I know for a fact that hard judges have chased off maybe even more guys then loose ones, come on guys we are not all professionals and there is a learning curve here for many. When guys use the rules as they are written the best kit will win I can assure you but when a judge comes in and then disregards them it creates a communication issue with the entire event and it's not for the positive either.
I don't like waterfall personally either but if the rules allow for it I feel obligated to follow the rules as close to the description of these rules, So long as the quality of spin is there all will be even from kit to kit.
I have also seen issues with awarding quality and depth multipliers but it's more remote of an issue in comparison. I have seen where judges will not judge birds that are clearly 1.0 in depth showing much better then 1.0 quality. I mean if you don't think they are a 1.3 but better then a 1.2 then give them a 1.25 if that makes you feel better.
Seems that some judges will only give good quality multipliers when they are on the deeper side which also is not utilizing the way the rules are written with a 1.0 to 2.0 in both quality and depth.
Experience is the best knowledge you have and a club can do a lot to improve this thru panel judging their local or club events. Obviously guys who have better vision will see much more at greater higher heights also. I would definitely suggest you all practice judge several times as a panel to discuss what you are all seeing, again many have poor eyesight and will be afraid to admit that.
I have seen guys judging birds that could not see them at 800 feet elevation and would stop judging and yet other judges continue to score at nearly twice the height. I personally think that is you see them doing it right at 400 feet I would bet they are also doing it at 800 feet. Good vision might be a good factor in selecting a good judge even?
Certified judges will not work either. All you can do and I encourage it is panel judge at the local level and discuss what is being judged outloud at exhibition kits for experience. As many know normally there is only 1 judge in the crowd and maybe 1/2 the crowd even pays attention to the kit in question the rest are too busy bsing. If they would take the 20 minutes out to really watch what is going on they might learn a thing or two.
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0221
268 posts
May 24, 2009
4:02 AM
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DHenderson,
You sound like You've lost Your joy.
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Scott
2168 posts
May 24, 2009
8:08 AM
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Dave, you have allways wanted them judged like its amature day,and you aren't alone, the fact is such thought cheats and punishes the truely good teams, but there are others myself included that want the bar set at what represents the breed, as for this little snip below
(I don't like waterfall personally either but if the rules allow for it I feel obligated to follow the rules as close to the description of these rules, So long as the quality of spin is there all will be even from kit to kit. )
Never were waterfalls allowed for in the rules, what did happen though was some abused the 1/2 rule to score waterfall,or thought that the 1/2 sec was between birds and not from first to last , that rule has since been taken out so that there is no confusion and that those scoreing waterfall are now not following the rules and cheathing those kits that do break and roll properly.
As for this one,
(I know for a fact that hard judges have chased off maybe even more guys then loose ones0
If they can't handle the heat then competition probably isn't for them, or maybe they should just start "make everybody feel good fly" or fly only when such judges are the judge.
Scott
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on May 24, 2009 9:04 AM
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pigeon pete
307 posts
May 24, 2009
9:32 AM
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Hi Mac,
Sorry for the joke,lol
I have done the stopwatch thing in the past.
FYI the half second rule has been done away with.
If you have a half second reacation time at the start of a break, and a half second at the end then you will be perfectly accurate!
I used to amuse myself with all sorts of tests of reaction with a watch. One I practiced was starting the watch and counting to 5 or 10 seconds in my head and with a bit of practice I was accurate to a half second. Another one was taking my pulse for around 5 beats and guessing my heart rate and was very accurate, mind you my heart rate is always the same at rest, boom boom ! LOL
P.S drugs can cause long term or permanent damage,lol
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3445 posts
May 24, 2009
10:47 AM
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A half second is "one thou" and a full second is "one thousand one". That is how the judge must score; must think. He doesn't arbatarily choose to do something else.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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DHenderson
80 posts
May 24, 2009
4:46 PM
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Hi Scott,
I have not always wanted judges to judge easy, but by the rules plan and simple, if the rules are written they should be followed as close as possible that's all. There should not be a rule saying a judge can do whatever they want following their own unwritten standard.
To me allowing a 1/2 second in between the 1st and last bird is waterfall in my view of it, however if 10 break in that range but only 6 went together they should give it a 6 and not discount the break entirely. The rules need modified to give judges a clear understanding of what it means, not for you to guess on your own and then bitch when a guy misinterpets it on both ends of the spectrum.
As I mentioned also about 1.0 depth birds, I have personally seen tighter and faster birds in the 10-15 foot range that were given a 1.0 to 1.2 in Q when they should've gotten more like a 1.4 in qulaity only discounted due to being short or nearly minimum in terms of depth. And on the opposite side of it I have seen sloppier deep birds that were given much better quality then they showed only because they were deeper. This I know has always been a little off in my view of it.
Again Scott it is competition and their are written rules in place that should be followed and if a club is following them as close as they see fit then a hard judge comes in and gives them a zero when they were at least 1.0 in terms of quality and depth they should've gotten a score.
I like it more when a judge shows up and then explains to you what they feel is a 1.0 roller and what is a 1.5 roller and they should also do the same with what they feel is the same in terms of depth.
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Scott
2181 posts
May 24, 2009
5:15 PM
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Dave 1.0 by what standard ? there is no standard and then it goes up from there. the 10 ft,could the judge felt it was 8 ft ? if it is that marginal than there will be a problem, that isn't the judges fault, I sence that you are still making excuses for lesser kits
I still remember when I judged your region and you wrote that the scores on average should have been 200 points higher ( a fly that you didn't attend) my thought was everyone should just add 200 points to their scores to make everybody feel good.
As for the now old 1/2 sec. , I couldn't gauge it so it was a non issue when I judged , the rules did say "in unison" which to me means just that, so in reality I am sorry to inform you that you weren't judging by the rules by scoreing waterfall
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on May 24, 2009 5:49 PM
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ezeedad
977 posts
May 24, 2009
5:36 PM
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"Rules of competitions should be tailored to reflect the highest goals of the contest so that the better performing individual or team will usually win, the exception being the result of good luck or an extraordinary good day. Therefore, if the contest is among Birmingham rollers, the qualities of this breed should be emphasized over all else."
Excerpt from Roller Dreams and Realities...
Paul G
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JMUrbon
697 posts
May 24, 2009
6:24 PM
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Scott did I fly in that fly. I only remember you judging my birds on one occasion and I believe that was the CA state fly. Personally I thought you did a good job. I do however remember having the conversation with you and Kevin after the fly regarding needing to take into consideration the other 99% of the fliers that finance theses flies year after year. I feel there is only 2-3% of all entries in both the WC and the FF that feel going into it that they have a chance of winning. The other 97-99% is what finances this fly and all they are looking for is improvement each year. There are guys that wont fly if you are the judge. Is that right? NO! I feel you and I are looking for the same thing in a kit. I also feel if you put you and Myself under 10 different kits we would both pick the same kits as the winners. Would our scores be the same. Probably not. I do my best to be consistant accross the board and I know you do the same. As far as I am concerned that is all that can be expected. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Scott
2182 posts
May 24, 2009
7:47 PM
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And are these same guys flying now Joe ?
I might add that most years I fly just to support because i am realistic about what is in my kitbox, once in the while though I will have a team that I will pit against any, but not often.
(There are guys that wont fly if you are the judge. )
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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gotspin7
2409 posts
May 24, 2009
8:05 PM
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Just enjoy the game guys! This was said to me many moons ago, if you put enough clean high class roll in front of any judge they cannot take anything away from you! Good luck!!
To all the judges out there, I want to say thank you for having the cojones and judging to the best of your ability. Thanks again.
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Sal Ortiz
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JMUrbon
698 posts
May 24, 2009
8:39 PM
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Yes Scott, That doesnt mean you were wrong when you judged them though and I wasnt there to have an opinion on the matter. I personally respect your opinion when it comes to a quality kit because I like yourself am always thriving for the best. Nothing less. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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macsrollers
77 posts
May 24, 2009
10:25 PM
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hi Pigeon Pete. No offense taken about your joke. Actually a good reminder of why I no longer indulge!
Scott, I wasn't aware of the 1/2 second rule being gone so I had the novel idea of actually going to the WC site and reading the rules! I've read the rules many times before but not for a number of years. I plan on re-reading them before any of my WC or NBRC flies from now on. I never liked the 1/2 second rule as it I feel it leaves the door open for waterfall breaks. Unison means unison. No better sight then when your kit hits it in unison with a number of birds actually rolling- even better spinning! So now I take my foot out of my mouth regarding the 1/2 second rule and the need to judge accordingly. Once I catch my breath I am sure my foot will end up back in there for some reason! I love this game!
Last Edited by on May 24, 2009 10:26 PM
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TimP
181 posts
May 25, 2009
7:46 PM
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Is it true Hannes missed his flight to Hawaii, and won't be able to make it over there?
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DHenderson
81 posts
May 25, 2009
10:11 PM
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Hi Scott,
I notice the side stepping here and then you add other things to your comment.
I only made comments of what I heard others tell me on the fly in question you mention, it's pretty obvious that a score can be whatever it will be under different judges. The main thing is consistency.
I personally think there should be a panel of judges at the regional level to avoid such things. I think everyone including the participant would feel much better getting a zero by 3 judges instead of a single judge and you would not need to go out of the area to get these judges.
I have heard more then once that a judge feels that 10 feet is not adequate in there opinion to earn a score even though the rules state it is and almost act like it's a secret and will not tell the participant this. We also know what many judges expectations are at times and this might keep guys from flying? As I said it's pretty hard to condemn a new guy who is trying but I will bet if you beat them down long enough they will quite flying, maybe not quit rollers but quit flying competition and I know that 10 guys per region can not afford to pay the entire bill?
Overall quality in my opinion is used incorrectly for the most part and there needs to be a guide line for awarding these, a specific number of birds seen possessing "x" amount quality, a simple equation. The greatest communication gap between judges and participates is due to this simple fact of not knowing what they are looking for. I mean how can some expect to improve if they are not given proper information of what their kits did or didn't do. These numbers really don't tell the whole story you see unless a judge is able to communicate. Good judges don't just call kits as they see them they also are good at communicating and have some people skills, if you don't want to tell them write them down.
I simply think that a more clear understanding needs to be given to participants by judges under specific rules and quide lines. I think Rick Mee did this when he was judging out here many years ago. He even had a flyer to tell the participate what he felt would be a 1.3 in quality and depth and covering the whole spectrum of 1.0 to 2.0. He had a set written standard he was following and was not afraid to tell anyone what that was.
I am glad to see you all have dropped the 1/2 second rule off and just went with the unison breaks, that is a great improvement.
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Alohabirds
158 posts
May 25, 2009
11:44 PM
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"Is it true Hannes missed his flight to Hawaii, and won't be able to make it over there?"
Yes, he missed the flight and the qualifier won't be flying in the finals this year.
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Alohazona
627 posts
May 26, 2009
12:25 AM
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Dexter,
That's a bummer!Your a fantastic competitor and I know you worked hard to earn that position.The boys told me both your kit's were really smokin'.Aloha my bruddah....Todd
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Scott
2185 posts
May 26, 2009
6:38 AM
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(I notice the side stepping here and then you add other things to your comment. )
Dave, you lost me
(The main thing is consistency)
Consistant at scoreing what ? culls too ? birds not breaking correctly ?
Consistancy doesn't mean diddly when all else isn't right.
By the way I am glad to see you posting again !
(I only made comments of what I heard others tell me on the fly in question you mention)
It was not a good fly for anyone Dave,there wasn't one worth 200 points let alone an average, whoever "they" were obviously aren't much as far as flyers, which you would not have picked up on.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on May 26, 2009 9:38 AM
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Alohazona
630 posts
May 27, 2009
2:22 PM
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It would be nice to see Hannes make it out to Hawaii.Dexter,did fly the day Hannes missed the flight to Hawaii.His kit was panel judged and the 1/2 second rule thrown out and he scored a 160 something pts.According to Rick Schoening the score is as solid as a rock and well earned.If you look at the current scores that would put him in the lead.I was told Dexter had some 5 second smokers.It would be a shame to push his qualifier to next year.Dexter is gentleman enough to accept that if it's the case.
What do you guys think??.....Aloha,Todd
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katyroller
410 posts
May 27, 2009
9:06 PM
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What was the reason for the missed flight? If the flight was missed because of poor time management or lack of planning on the part of the judge, Dexter should get another fly date at the end of the fly so he has time to get his birds ready again. If it was an accident that was unavoidable, all efforts should be made to reschedule a fly date for Dexter but if it can't be done, he should automatically qualify for next year. Tracey
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Alohazona
633 posts
May 27, 2009
10:58 PM
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Tracey,
No reason was given,only he missed the flight.We just want our guy to win the WC.I believe Dexter took both 1st and 2nd place in our region....Aloha,Todd
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Scott
2196 posts
May 28, 2009
7:43 AM
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Todd, you can't compare scores with what might have been, it doesn't work and is meaningless.
Tracey, the judge is at everyone elses mercy,there is logistics and cost that has to be taken into consideration, making this whole thing happen the way it does takes a lot of work from a lot of people.
Sure it sucks for the flyer, how could it not,but glitches are hard to avoid and I'm surprised that it comes off as well as it does, Dexter was given a slot for next year.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on May 28, 2009 7:44 AM
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katyroller
412 posts
May 28, 2009
3:09 PM
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Scott, I go back to my post and still say that if the fault was the judges or he could have avoided the missed flight, then every effort must be made to give Dexter a chance to fly. Alot of things could happen to Dexters' kit between this year and next year. I am sure Dexter put alot of work into his kit and he deserves an opportunity to fly his kit, THIS YEAR.
Tracey
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Alohazona
634 posts
May 28, 2009
8:08 PM
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Meaningless...shmeaningless,it needs to happen this year.The money was paid by our region for the judge to come.I don't even know how a slot next year will work,basically it won't.Dexter needs to be notified asap when his kit will be judged,so he can prepare.
The S.O.L. excuse wouldn't be tolerated in your region,so it should not be tolerated in ours.A win without the Hawaii region being flown,would a shameful win.Theres nothing you can say that will change my mind.The NBRC needs to be accountable.....Todd
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yang501424
265 posts
May 28, 2009
9:32 PM
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whatever floats your boat Todd. Take em to COURT!!! jk:)
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Good Game Loft
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Alohazona
635 posts
May 28, 2009
9:48 PM
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Court never entered my mind,and never would.Actually just the opposite,if money for getting the judge out here was an issue ,we would probably pull together and get it done.It's about getting this worked out,and doing the right thing....Aloha,Todd
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0221
299 posts
May 28, 2009
10:02 PM
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Todd, What has the W.C. co. say in answer to your request? Can this fly be date be changed?
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macsrollers
80 posts
May 28, 2009
10:36 PM
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Some are confused on where the responsibility lies. The NBRC has nothing to do with running the World Cup Fly, beyond support that fly by awarding Master Flyer points to the participants that earn them as well as supporting the fly by advertizing it some. The World Cup is a seperate entity. It is unfortunate for what ever reason that the Hawaii qualifier has missed their scheduled spot. As Scott noted, it is amazing that more flights aren't missed considering the logistics and hectic schedule given. How can anyone have the nerve to blame the judge for a missed flight. Consider the fact that the judge is rushed from region to region, is in a country and airports that are foreign to him, and is at the whim of the people of each region as to how and when he gets to where he needs to be. I agree the right thing to do is to get the judge to Hawaii. Seems now is the time to adapt the schedule while he is on this side of the country. He is supposed to be here in Vegas Sunday nighte leaving Monday early afternoon,though we haven't recieved confirmation or flight info. to back that up. Seems they could tweak the schedule a little to get him to Hawaii. I wouldn't have a problem if my fly slot was rescheduled. But that is up to the WC Committee. Also, why would it be a shameful win for the person that did win if any of the other qualifiers did not get to fly for whatever reason. That would be totally out of the winner's control and to taint the win because hitches in 6+ weeks of traveling and flights would not be fair to the winner. I believe the WC Committee should do whatever it can in it's powers to get the judge to Hawaii. Money should not be an issue, the WC should be responsible for that. But that is not my choice, just my thoughts.
Todd, I feel for you but don't blame the NBRC as it is not in their control. Mahalo, Don M.
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glenn
257 posts
May 28, 2009
11:01 PM
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Hello Guys:
It is a shame that the HAwaii guy cant fly, but they gave him a bye for next year....That means he is automatically qualified for the region, he doesnt have to pay flying fee unless he enters another kit and he has a year to prepare and get ready for the fly. I don't see a real problem here, I see it as a win - win position....His birds will be a year older more time to fly them and really get them ready and and no pressure to qualify...Just get them ready for the big dance. Remember in 1997 there were (2) winners because the judge got sick on the fly and everything worked out.......Glenn
p.s. The judge for 2011 just might be from Hawaii...just a thought...Glenn
Last Edited by on May 28, 2009 11:04 PM
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Alohazona
636 posts
May 29, 2009
12:34 AM
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Glenn/Guys
The Hawaii guy could fly and eventually did,we were just missing Hannes to score it.
I hear ya,Interesting insight!I figure it this way"you don't ask,you don't get"So I have an e-mail into Yandle,we'll see where it goes from there.
I'm sure Dexter is glad the pressure is off for now,lol.
Our guy is a contender that's why I am pushing for this.Like Tracey indicated alot can happen in a year.
I'm not exactly sure why anyone would fly if the qualifier has already been forwarded till 2010,what a mess!...Aloha,Todd
ps.Don,we are trying to do all of this without pointing fingers.The bottom line is the NBRC was on my check,and thats who cashed it.You're right its not about money,but there is tickets out there with Hawaii on it.The penalties just need to be paid from the non-use,and it's all good.
Last Edited by on May 29, 2009 1:27 AM
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Scott
2200 posts
May 29, 2009
7:00 AM
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Todd, niether the NBRC or Yandle has absolutly nothing to do with the W.C.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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katyroller
413 posts
May 29, 2009
7:18 AM
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"How can anyone have the nerve to blame the judge for a missed flight."
Don M.,
I haven't heard anyone blame the judge, yet. The answer I have been looking for is, why was the flight missed in the first place? The idea that since Dexter automatically qualifies for next year everything is okay, doesn't cut it in my book. Has the WC committee released a statement concerning wether or not they are trying to fit Dexter in this year? If they haven't they should and very soon. Tracey
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j .wanless
791 posts
May 29, 2009
7:26 AM
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hi all
i did not really want to get involved in this .but after reading all the posts would like to add my view.
i would agree with every thing macsrollers as said.i also agree with scott i too are amazed that more flights are not missed considering the size of the w/c now.but i also think if theres any way we can get dexter to fly now we should try our hardest to let him fly.its ok saying he gets a free go next year .but a lot can happen in a year with pigeons.he has put all his work in to qualifying this year not next year.it was not dexters fault the judge missed his flight + also may i add it probaly was not hanness/s fault either so no one should be blaming the judge.he as to rely on the genorosity of the people driving him around in a foreign country.but if theres any way we can get dexter to fly i think we should make it happen .
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yang501424
266 posts
May 29, 2009
8:28 AM
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Are we humans or robots?
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Good Game Loft
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2997 posts
May 29, 2009
8:44 AM
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John good post there....Dexter is ready this year what ever circumstances happen ,,,happen .. see what they can do for the guy this year because with the BOP situation next year you might have nothing..I mean do you guys have BOP problems too? or is it just us.. -------
Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
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yang501424
267 posts
May 29, 2009
8:51 AM
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I heard that they have no BOP all year round. And I think the BOP wouldn't want to fly across the pacific ocean.
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Good Game Loft
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