turkey buzzard
111 posts
Jun 30, 2009
10:43 AM
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I think my prediction of the World Cup fly has come true!!!
In a previous posting I stated, I believe it was to Scott, that the Europeans and South Africans would have higher scores in the WC than the U.S.
Let the argueing begin!!!!
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yang501424
295 posts
Jun 30, 2009
11:55 AM
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I think the problem with the US fliers now day is frequency and frequency because frequency is what scores point. They wants their birds to break 4-5 times a minute. But Frequency without teamwork is nothing (setting up and breaking together). Too much frequency has lead to waterfall break (which is not scoreable). We know this judge doesn't score waterfall nor this 1/2sec break. It is not all about frequency. US flier should work toward teamwork as much as frequency. For example many of us witness Bill Crider's team did an excellent job of teamwork. Setup and breaking together not constantly having birds rolling by themself.
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Good Game Loft
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3492 posts
Jun 30, 2009
1:43 PM
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Are you saying that Hannes had an agenda? Since leaving the US and Canada the first, second, third, fifth, and twelved positions are now filled. He still has the rest of England to post then on to Ireland, Serbia, Australia, and South Africa yet to do. The US will be fortunate to have a top ten finisher this year.
That is how the cookie crumbles, sometimes. And guess what? I will put my birds up again next year searching for a crumble.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Jun 30, 2009 2:00 PM
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turkey buzzard
113 posts
Jun 30, 2009
2:07 PM
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No I don't think per say the judge had an agenda. But what I do feel is that he did not judge according to the WC rules. He definately missed some breaks. He felt that all birds breaking should be in a perfect "H" style, with clean seperation. In one Calif. flier he did not score a break because 12 birds broke with 5 going 20 feet. The rest (7) were 5 footers. Instead of calling the 5 bird break he didn't count anything stating that the birds "all" did not go the proper depth. If you look at the WC web site finals scores frequency is not where the winners are made its big breaks with good quality and depth scores. Frequency is where you make up high scores with smaller breaking kits. I think he was a great judge Nick. He told one flier who was in the finals that I had judged, that I was the closet regional judge to score what he was looking at.
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Square
736 posts
Jun 30, 2009
2:08 PM
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this is gonna be a good one. I can say this much There is a big diffrence in the scores than the past few years. I can understand a couple of hundred point's but 1,000 points is outta this world. I cant really comment on anything else because Ive never been to South Africa or anywhere outta the U.S. to see rollers. I dont really know what they strive for be it frequency or anything else I can tell you this much I guess Us folks here in the U.S need to reavluate our cerrer desions in reguards to This comp thing...LOL because it seems like we are way OFF... So me personally I will not be flying the world cup until I get a perfect kit or make a trip to see with my own eyes what need's to be done to compete. Good luck
Booker
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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j .wanless
834 posts
Jun 30, 2009
2:27 PM
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hi all
turkey buzzard what a load of trash you are talking
hannes has just left my house after 5 or 6 days.he judged the kits in my area that i judged in our qualifyers + so the 2 kits i put through to the finals
both those kits could have easily + should have won the w/c.but did not kit that good in the finals so stopping either of them taking 1st place.look at the depth + quality of the 2 kits.even haness said with better kitting 1 of them would have won it easily.he also told me that the birds in the usa are way behind
our birds in middlesbrough uk.we ended up in 2nd + 12 th place with the best quality up to now .but im telling you ive seen the kits in africa 4 or 5 times + ive been saying for a few years they will win it very soon.as they fly very simmular birds to ours.
but thiers kit like glue so good luck to them i hope 1 of them does win it .at least i know it will deserve it .
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3495 posts
Jun 30, 2009
3:04 PM
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John,
Well, if the birds in South Africa is close to those in the UK I guess you are saying they are a whole hell of a lot better birds than what is found in the USA......right? Is that what you are saying?
Nick
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Jun 30, 2009 7:41 PM
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warpspeed
109 posts
Jun 30, 2009
3:06 PM
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j.wanless you guys are terribly wrong and mistaken the birds in the usa are not way behind we just have a huge fu... problem with predators and 90% of us cant fly our best because they get ate or we stock them so they wont get ate. haness himself told me he did not know what a predator was and that he had lost 1 Bird in 5 YEARS. we loose hundreds in one season. when the predators find the lucky and they will just of matter of time it will be a different story. also world cup timing is terrible the birds in our region had maybe been out flying 20 to 25 days from a 5 month lookup just not enough time to do the best job.
abel
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Square
737 posts
Jun 30, 2009
4:24 PM
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Warpspeed you hit it on the head, Imean if they dont even know what a predator is thats is awsom for them. It didnt just take someone saying we are way behind in the U.S because the score sheets show it!. As far as South Africa takin the whole thing ..SH$! that woud be expected they have kits that are 5years + I know only of a few that have a kit that old if even that...I think it is pretti clear to me alot of people here in the U.S are behind this new curve.. I strive for the best birds I can breed Ive seen good roll, But this has turned into a uneven match even for the top flyers in the U.S. The consept of the world cup is the same however the arena has changed, just cant fly rollers here like you could 15 to 20 years ago and we can all agree on that. So with that being said, geographic areas are diffrent as far as B.O.P's some dont haveum but some do. The bigger picture is this for me over the past 20years or so alot of folks had to focus on birds comming in to the roll early/frequency or what ever. Do you think this has changed the overall consistancy/quality/ and team performance??? Obviously it has based on what I see in the W/C Scores. I want to make it clear I have no 'BeeF with the other countries involved in the world cup, Just understand that if you can fly a bird fof five years without incident you are foturnate and extreamly luckyer than even the "TOP" flyers here in the U.S. I enjoy flying my rollers and supporting the hobbie by paying my dues. But alot has changed and hopefully we can find a evenground..In addition I have no problem with the Judge "Personally" As i dont know him, However I will pay to see that perfect kit that does it all, Some people have higher standards so for now I will sit back with my eyes open, thought I was on the right track always willing to get better....Good luck to all in the future...
BOOKER.
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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turkey buzzard
115 posts
Jun 30, 2009
7:36 PM
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I am so sorry but Wanless that is a Bloody Crock I have all the DVD's from the WC where a judge video the kits in action and have yet to see better birds than what is here in the USA. With our importing different birds from England within the last few years that there would still be a majoe or big difference in the birds. I was seeing 1.6 Depth how deep, in feet, was a 1.6 bird going?
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RUDY..ZUPPPPP
GOLD MEMBER
2649 posts
Jun 30, 2009
7:38 PM
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How u been carl dont be stingy and send me some dvds.......lol
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RUDY PAYEN
PANCHO VILLA LOFT
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3499 posts
Jun 30, 2009
7:46 PM
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SPIN TIME SPIN DEPTH
in seconds=in feet=multiplier
.56=5=0
.79=10=1.0
.97=15=1.05
1.45=20=1.1
1.60=25=1.15
1.98=30=1.2
2.15=35=1.25
2.44=40=1.3
2.59=45=1.35
2.79=50=1.4
2.94=60=1.5
3.22=70=1.6
3.52=80 =1.7
3.88=90=1.8
4.16=100=1.9
4.44=125=2.0
A 1.6 depth finding is 70 feet?
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3146 posts
Jun 30, 2009
10:29 PM
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lol @Rudy
I have to agree with Warpspeed..when you have BOP at your end .its impossible to keep doing well all the time..especially when birds are scare they don't fly the same... without the goods this game ain't easy..
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Ralph.
Life comes down to the choices you make, and then living with the results.
Last Edited by on Jun 30, 2009 10:31 PM
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yang501424
297 posts
Jun 30, 2009
10:36 PM
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I totally disagree on how that chart rates its feet and multiplier together.
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Good Game Loft
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macsrollers
118 posts
Jun 30, 2009
10:54 PM
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Hannes is a very strict judge, but he is judging at a high criteria because this is a competition to pick the best kit flown in the world on competition day. US is not far behind any where else in the world. There are good birds all over the world, including the US. The best kit flown for the judge on judgement day will win the World Cup. US does seem to have a much worst problem with BOP's, Hannes acknowledged that when he judged my kit. I was happy to be able to put up a competitive kit that Hannes said if they would have stayed down a little lower for the 10 minutes they flew a little to high I would have had 250 to 300 points and at least a 1.4 quality. But we all have if's when we fly birds. I lost 9 birds from my A team leading up to the WC regional fly, including one ripped open when I flew our region and one taken. It is what it is. But for people to say that an agenda was in place all along is inaccurate- in my opinion. The best fliers in the US can compete with the world, as well as the best fliers in world can compete with the US. I have yet to see a good video that does justice to the birds flown. Hopefully some day someone like the Discovery channel will do a documentary on rollers using their high tech equipment that will do justice to the birds. Unless you see each kit flown in any competition you really can't prejudge the person scoring the birds because a certian area or country scores well in comparison to another. Hats off to whomever wins the WC and those that flew in it. Regardless to the conditions, some have worse then others, it is quite a accomplishment to win the WC.
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jim
243 posts
Jun 30, 2009
11:33 PM
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Hi all
In any country there is good and bad kits. We also have kits that are high frequency but they are twislers but this hobby is about rollers and not twislers. Our club competitions on club level if any bird breaks kit you don’t score. I personally fly a kit that can fly 20 minutes without one bird out of kit. We all know with deep rolling birds you don’t have to guess how many birds rolled. Why not ask people that previously judged South Africa about the quality here. Eldon would not have given Hannes the highest score on quality ever in the world cup if he didn’t deserve it. Come visit South Africa and you will see what I mean.
South Africa has the best weather also; we have 2 months winter and no hawks. Perfect conditions for flying birds. We also have hold over kits of 5 to 6 years old. Of all the judges in the world if there is one man that I would stand up for, for his character and fairness it is Hannes Rossouw.
An upright man of strict morals. Outright a perfectionist.
ALWAYS YOU’RE FRIEND IN THE SPORT
JIM MASON
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Jim "Mason"
http://www.devilear-roller.co.za
Member of NBRC
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j .wanless
835 posts
Jul 01, 2009
7:40 AM
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hi all
firstly lets get something right im not + never have said theres no good kits in the usa of course there is
but i are saying that hannes said that your birds are no where near as good as our birds in middlesbrough uk
for quality.nick a hell of a lot of africans have been around the world + decided that they want the type of birds we fly in middlesbrough.even hienne biker who you know is the top flyer in the world going by the w/c has said many many times his birds has not got the quality of our birds.though his have better other things like kitting + breaking bigger.
and i also know that you have massive problems with the bop.but i can assure you we in the uk get hit just as bad.infact i was hit that often last year i almost quit.one of our top flyers who lives around the corner from me did quit.but to get back to my argument .some of you seem to think that the w/c is already decided + i find that a bit hard to take as i know hannes + he wants the best kit to win no matter where its from.and nick like i said theres birds in s/a that are as good as ours + maybe even better.
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katyroller
439 posts
Jul 01, 2009
8:12 AM
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I am not surprised by the scores. As an American, I will say that we tend to change everything we put our hands on, sometimes for the better and other times...yeah.LOL! It may be time for some of us to go back and look at what the standard describes and start breeding toward that standard.
I personally feel that over the years too much emphasis was placed on frequency at the expense of depth and quality. I have been told on this Forum many times that this is not true but I tend to say that the scores this year are supporting what I've believe. My congratulations to EVERYONE that has flown the WC this year!
Tracey
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Square
739 posts
Jul 01, 2009
10:42 AM
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Jim, Man you are proving my point...Like I said maby we need to re evaluate the quality of birds here. Just by what you said. Meaning your club rules, No outbirds period.. Do you think this combined with two month winters, perfect flying conditions and no BOP's. Makes it better to showcase your rollers? in addition having 5to 6year old kits? Relize that your kit birda are as old as half of my breeder's..LOL I think that is awsom for youguy's but it provides for a uneven playing field..Ya know. Just want to point out that things change so this Comp thing has to change in some way for the better of all.. It's just getting harder and harder to become the best in the world or even close..The judge is the judge thats that.. No one likes a loose judge or one sided judge, How about a perfectionest? I want my rollers to be perfect however that is highly unlikely... Good luck to you guys "Flying in the free World"...Truly
Booker.
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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turkey buzzard
118 posts
Jul 01, 2009
12:23 PM
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Wanless I apprecite the comment but what in your opinion is 1.6 depth.
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j .wanless
837 posts
Jul 01, 2009
1:09 PM
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hi all
ive been asked what i would consider 1.6 for depth.
for me a kit of 20 there would have to be at least 12 to 15 brds rolling around 35 to 40 ft of good quality
not just falling that distance.my job is scaffolding so i work at hieghts + have good judgments on lenth.
also the guttering on my house is 20ft so that gives me a good guide.i would also like to point out that i judged a region in the uk at the weekend + hannes marked for me.the winner won with 80 odd points + 2nd was 64 + 3rd 62.it was quite funny as i senced hannes waiting to score some what he thought was breaks + i told him not a chance.i also marked for him on our w/c finals.so what im trying to say is if you all thought hannes was hard you would all hang me as i thought he was quite a lienent judge without been too easy like other judges,
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turkey buzzard
119 posts
Jul 01, 2009
1:23 PM
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If 12 to 15 brds were rolling the depth you mentioned I would score a 1.4. I would have to see birds rolling in the 60 to 70 foot range for the 1.6. I won't even go near trying to disguss quality. John I do respect you and hope that I can save enough money to someday visit. And observe some classic birds with you.
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j .wanless
838 posts
Jul 01, 2009
1:36 PM
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hi all
turkey buzzard you will be more than welcome i hope you can make it 1 day.by the way hannes was amazed by the number of good flyers that live in our area i took him to see most of them all living no more than 2 mile at most from me around 20 flyers.thats probaly why we all fly good birds theres lots of good competition.
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rtwilliams
GOLD MEMBER
409 posts
Jul 01, 2009
1:42 PM
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This just my opinion
But A 2 NEEDS TO BE REALISTIC. The only bird that I have ever seen roll 125 feet did not stop until it hit the ground. Not saying thier are not birds that can not roll that far and be in control, just saying to get 20 birds to do it at once is not realitic.
My opion is if the kit can average 50 maybe 60 feet than that should be a 2. That may be possible.
work your way back from thier.
Under this idea a kit of 35 to 40 footers would be 1.6 to 1.7.
My opinion. and of course they have to do it right. No wing switching, dishrags, etc.
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RT Williams
Last Edited by on Jul 01, 2009 1:43 PM
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Square
743 posts
Jul 01, 2009
3:02 PM
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It's all in the eye of the beholder. POINT BLANK.. you can ask yourself this if you got 10 people in a row and asked them to write down the legnth of a telephone pole the awnsers would be really diffrent. Some places have smaller Poles. Then add in the fact that 4 or five of those people lived somewhere diffrent than you... You getit? So if there are diffrent types of roll how can we use a standard rule of thumb??? As far as sceonds? I never hear anyone ever add wind into the equation..How do you tally the feet/sceonds when the bird rolls into the wind and goes upward first.. So do you shave off a fraction of a sceond or add one...LOL I do understand there is a standard for the Roller, however people see thing diffrent. I mean whats your personal vision like???? I have 20/18 boath eyes however it would be hard for me to see a silverdollar at 50ft+in the air and thats kinda low.I have parachuted into the wilderness of North America to fight fires. Altitude was my middle name however my rate of decent was based on things like the dencity of the air and temp. you fall alot slower in a place like Alaska then you would in lets say Arizona the air is thiner there, in addition I am a tree climber, and Ranked at the higest level as far as Felling Timber (Cutting Down Big Trees). Untill we get some kind of "School For judging the Roller" 1.6 for one guy would differ from the someones elses 1.6..Wanless you said earlier that your scribe was ready to mark somthing that he thought was a break, you told him not a chance seems like he was way off from your minds eye... You kinda see what I mean? You didnt see eye to eye..But we all see thing diffrent, Thats the challenge besides the fact that you cant please everyone nomatter what...LOL I would love to see some type of schooling on what it takes to judge thease pigeons we love so much, and maby some type of certification program, Maby even a panel of judging. I know this would be hard as it's hard to find a judge willing to travel not to mention two..But the benifit would be that one person wouldent take the hammering for desions made. He would have the Documentation that he is definantly edjucated in the art of judging rollers and he would have a Co-defendant..LOL Hope this all makes sence.. Thanx for your time and good luck.. to all of you!!!! 1
Booker
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
Last Edited by on Jul 01, 2009 3:12 PM
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Mount Airy Lofts
888 posts
Jul 01, 2009
4:09 PM
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j.wanless,
I can't speak for you guys over there but over in my neck of the woods, there is no off season. The hawks live here and visit on a regular basis. I am luckier than most as my problem has to do with the coopers mostly. Point is, I am very lucky to even have enough birds to fly yet to have birds rolling.
From what I got from Hannes and now Jim... SA fliers of course will have a super edge against most USA fliers. There is only a very, very few here who can fly like them. It isn't that we don't have the birds, we just can't stop the coopers and falcons from feeding,tearing, and ripping them to shreds.
Like they are say, once you see a good one, it is universal. Believe me, we do have good ones here just like over there.
I also flew in the finals. I can tell you what, my birds didn't have nothing in the quality and depth department. What can I say, I lost 10 birds from my main team this past Winter and Spring. Any one who losses that many birds from their main team and still qualify.... you know the deal.
Hawks and weather plays a lot in what one can put up and select... I sure wish the UK and SA don't get what we have over here. I am pretty sure most if not all top fliers will call it quits if they did!!
Thor
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It's all about the friends we make :)
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Scott
2281 posts
Jul 01, 2009
6:42 PM
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This thread makes us Americans look like cry babies and is embarrasing!!!
For those reading this thread from outside of the US please accept our apologies for this bad sportmanship shown.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 01, 2009 7:36 PM
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3508 posts
Jul 01, 2009
6:44 PM
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I think it would bahove us all not to be critisizing the current judge and judges of the past either they be Santa Claus or The Gritch.
Just put your birds up and shut up.
I saw and listened to Bill Roy give nothing, but praise to this year's judge when I know he got penelized for deep birds more than a couple of times. Bill Roy is a man.
Like I say, just put your birds up and shut up.
He have kicked the UK's ass along with South Africa's in the past. We will do it again; even with thier own super-duper judge.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Jul 01, 2009 6:47 PM
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155
1093 posts
Jul 01, 2009
7:05 PM
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P.S. this thread makes us Americans look like cry babies and is embarrasing!!!
For those reading this thread from outside of the US please accept our apologies for this bad sportmanship shown.
lmaooooo
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JOSE JIMENEZ AKA EVILLOFT'S
-MESA,ARIZONA-
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Bricksfall
19 posts
Jul 01, 2009
9:39 PM
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NickSider where did you get that Scale? Does anyone else use that scale? Just wondering if it's the most accurate one to use? Anyone? I have seen a few. This one looks better than other's. Thank You.
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GEORGE ALDANA
HIGH GRAVITY LOFT
Last Edited by on Jul 01, 2009 9:41 PM
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3510 posts
Jul 02, 2009
6:24 AM
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Bricksfall,It is basically something that I with a stopwatch; a little bit of known physics; and some applied logic worked out. Not necessarily an exact science combined with an opinion.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Square
744 posts
Jul 02, 2009
10:31 AM
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Just wanna maket it clear Im no "Cry Babbie" Straight up. Yea Im a American, and I dont think this tread makes us look like poor sports. If someone is telling me how there birds are way better the the ones over here I wanna see it...I think I made that perfectly clear!!! You can be good in this sport/hobbie that's fine and what it's all about....All cool But whan you start Thumbing your NOSE" at the ones you are competing aginst...WOW.. That's what I see,,, Sh!$ from this tread if I was a poor sport I would buy a couple of gallons of gas for my loft, Move the fambam to SA then buy some real rollers...LOL "SUPER NEVER!",Not to mention the emountion envolved with thease birds and loosing a years work at the least every year is hurtful then to have someone "THUMBING THEIR NOSE" I mean Common! I was just pointing out how somepeople are alot luckier than us as far as being able to fly their birds freely without incident. Keep in mind I wasnt woffing about how we have it so bad here... Where I come from if you got it good, you got it good,, You respect that and doitmovin, you dont turn around and Thumb your NOSE at the less fortunate... PERIOD!. "TOOOOMUCH BUBBLIN WILL MAKE YOU FIZZ QUICKER"....So you folks reading this outta the U.S relize ME personally I was just stating my point. Freedom of speach,, withen reason Dont feel I need to apoligize for nothing..LOL Good luck to all.
Square, AKA "BOOKER"
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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Scott
2287 posts
Jul 02, 2009
2:34 PM
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The fact is we are flying to much shit here and we need to step it up rather than snivling.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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gotspin7
2442 posts
Jul 02, 2009
3:42 PM
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The fact is we are flying to much shit here and we need to step it up rather than snivling
Scott, I am ready to KICK ARSE anytime. Garbage here goes were it belongs! I think their is a higher percentage of roller men and women (had to throw our lady friends in there...haha!) trying to breed to the standard than concentrating on just flying a kit to score points. I try to stay of these topics but this one just sucked me in a little! ...LOL... Hope to see you in the finals in the fall.
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Sal Ortiz
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Square
745 posts
Jul 02, 2009
4:04 PM
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Step it up??? That's a good one...HOW? We all strive for the best at least the ones who wanna be a competetor..snivling...LOL It's so easy for everyone to get steam rolled and just lay down.. Like in one year the U.S has Sh!&t for rollers. Amazing how fast peple are so quick to jump on the other train. If you dont stand for somthing you will fall for anything....I dont confuse standing up with whining. I /we can step it up all we want dosent cahnge the fact the BOP'S will "HUT 234" right along with us one step ahead. So to be competive in this hobbie PLEASE let me know what one needs to do to Step it up besides getting outta rollers or movin to another country. Put it like this we probally have the most dedicated rollermen here in the U.S.A, The people that are setting this new standard and putting in my face that the fly so free woul break down like a "Folding Chair"..in one season here in my "KNECK OF THE WOOD'S", not to mention L.A..or surrounding areas. Not snivlin just fustrated..."Fly A Season On My Wings", Then see how you like the NaNANAANANA......
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
Last Edited by on Jul 02, 2009 4:05 PM
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gotspin7
2448 posts
Jul 02, 2009
4:15 PM
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Step it up??? That's a good one...HOW? We all strive for the best at least the ones who wanna be a competetor..snivling...LOL It's so easy for everyone to get steam rolled and just lay down.. Like in one year the U.S has Sh!&t for rollers. Amazing how fast peple are so quick to jump on the other train. If you dont stand for somthing you will fall for anything....I dont confuse standing up with whining. I /we can step it up all we want dosent cahnge the fact the BOP'S will "HUT 234" right along with us one step ahead. So to be competive in this hobbie PLEASE let me know what one needs to do to Step it up besides getting outta rollers or movin to another country. Put it like this we probally have the most dedicated rollermen here in the U.S.A, The people that are setting this new standard and putting in my face that the fly so free woul break down like a "Folding Chair"..in one season here in my "KNECK OF THE WOOD'S", not to mention L.A..or surrounding areas. Not snivlin just fustrated..."Fly A Season On My Wings", Then see how you like the NaNANAANANA......
Brother, I know what you are talking about. I used to feed them everyday out there. I was in San Bernandino County for 6 years feeding them..lol.. You have to change your mindset and just concentrate on the good days out there...lol.. Good luck with your rollers bro.
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Sal Ortiz
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Scott
2288 posts
Jul 02, 2009
4:21 PM
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The fact is we have been getting waxed for years for the amount of flyers that we put into the finals, we can come up with all the excuses we want, like I said, we need to step it up and quit snivling.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 02, 2009 4:22 PM
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Scott
2289 posts
Jul 02, 2009
4:23 PM
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That is the spirit Sal !!!!!!!!!!
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Square
746 posts
Jul 02, 2009
4:34 PM
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Right on Ill focus on the good days, as they are getting shorter and shorter. And know I will find a way to fixit. Just keep hopeing for the best good luck,ive wiped my tears, and dryed my nose..LOL
Booker.
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"Home of the Ghost Town Roller"
K.C.R.C
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macsrollers
120 posts
Jul 02, 2009
10:40 PM
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As a serious competitor my personal agenda would love to take me somewhere like South Africa, but that is my roller agenda and that will never outweigh my family and I stay in Las Vegas because that is where my family is. So I live with the 110 degrees plus weather May thru Sept. and now the BOP's 6 to 7 months a year instead of 3 or 4 like in the past. We all face challenges and obstacles in this hobby, especially when we want to compete with the best. You got to keep it fun or it just isn't worth it. So when you think you got it bad there are always others that have it worse. Look at fine roller men like Jerry Higgins and Willie Wright. They face all the obstacles we do, including heavy BOP's, and then add in their physical challenges of a wheel chair and one arm. But their attitude is positive and great guys to know. And they can compete with the best if they get good conditions to fly in on fly day. So we can complain about the challenges and obstacles or we can face them and make the best of what life throws at us, whether in regards to rollers or not. Focus on the positives that rollers provide you and you will find the negatives effect you less and less. If the negativs outwiegh the positives and take the fun out of it, then time to change hobbies! Everyone have a great and fun fly next time you let your birds out! Don M. LVRC NBRC QSDC
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pigeon pete
328 posts
Jul 03, 2009
6:00 AM
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Hi Guys,
The European and other flyers had to adapt to fly under WC rules. Some still don't like the WC rules and don't enter.
Now it seems that the rest world is getting on track with the U,S style of flying, and competing well, too well in fact, and so some will no doubt want to change to rules again!
It's that time of year again, the moaners, and the conspiracy theorists are coming out of the woodwork.
To suggest that it's having a go to say that some flyers are behind the rest, but then state that they loose all their best birds to BOP, and they have no time to train etc etc, is explaining WHY they are behind, not denying it, so I think someones emotions are confusing there logic a little somewhat.
Depth score,
The judge decides that, and will score comparitively, so who gives a toss what fred or bill think 60ft should score? The judge goes around the world and scores deeper ones higher than shorter ones, end of story.
Don't any of you run away with the idea that you are the only flyer that gets hit with BOP.
Some of the best English flyers cannot compete on a level playing field with the rest of the English because they get hit so often.
This year I have lost no rollers to the perigrine, so I'm lucky. Some years I have to stop flying. The year I won the WC I was flying all my best birds including breeders, and encouraged by the success, I kept them in the air for the later flys, they won the All England but were only half the team that won the big one. Having qualified for the National at the end of the season, fell obliged to fly the WC team, and so I continued to fly them losing the odd bird here and there to the BOP.
By that time it was virtually a different team, my best birds had been taken, and my future breeding progamme was obliterated.
Looking back I was an idiot to plough on regardless, and I'm probably getting to old to learn by my mistakes anyway lol.
There, we also can stand up and moan with the best in the world, lets all get a hankey, and have a big blow,lol.
Yours in the sport,
Pete.
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j .wanless
843 posts
Jul 03, 2009
6:43 AM
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hi all
well said pete i are 1 of the ones your talking about
i was hit that many times last year i almost gave them up.people dont know how close i came to packing up.the reason i did not fly the w/c this year was i was left with to few birds.but as scott as said i realised my birds were not good enough to win it so i decided to judge our qualifyers instead.you have to admit when your birds are not good enough.without giving all the excuses .we all have problems flying rollers.but some of us dont look for excuses when things dont go right.i respect people like scott when they have the balls to admit maybe thier birds are not as good as they think they are .too many people sit in thier own back yard + get loft blind .you have to get out there + see what other people are flying.
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gotspin7
2451 posts
Jul 03, 2009
1:51 PM
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John, most of the flyers in Southern California go thru that year in and year out. Most loose at least 5 to 7 birds a week. How many did you loose last year?
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Sal Ortiz
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j .wanless
845 posts
Jul 03, 2009
2:12 PM
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hi all
sal i lost count last year but not all bop attacks id say around 30.just lost a yearling tonight to the bop and ive just added my rings this year with the y/brds i killed + left rings on bop attacks + birds straying im 35 down already + thats without my old bird losses
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Scott
2304 posts
Jul 03, 2009
2:20 PM
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Sal, Tim Decker seems to hold his own down there, why ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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gabe454
1591 posts
Jul 03, 2009
2:24 PM
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hey scott i need to talk to you can you email me your phone number thanks.
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GABE
454 LOFT
L.P.R.C
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gotspin7
2454 posts
Jul 03, 2009
2:27 PM
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John, that is tough brother and thank you for sharing.
Scott, Tim has good stock and after all his losses still holds strong. He also breeds a bunch of birds to keep up, with the losses. When I flew with him and the other members of CPRC, it was just business as usual. Make more and keep going. No excuses. With my question, I just wanted to see a count on how many loses, as some just talk about loses and the real numbers can be WAY different. How many do you loose a year Scott?
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Sal Ortiz
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Scott
2305 posts
Jul 03, 2009
2:35 PM
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My money says that it is the type of bird more than anything else Sal, as for my losses, they aren't what they used to be before I wised up and quit raising both Rollers and BOPs.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
2306 posts
Jul 03, 2009
2:35 PM
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Gabe 916-647-7119
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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gotspin7
2455 posts
Jul 03, 2009
2:42 PM
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Scott, what type of bird are you talking about? I really do not beleive that the most of the real roller men out there are not breeding culls to just score points are you? Now let me say this along with that, if they were how do you feel they are affecting you or the future of the hobby? Who is really goofy enough to purchase birds from these guys? Or to truly believe that is the way the way to go?
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Sal Ortiz
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