kham89
238 posts
Jul 14, 2009
1:27 PM
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thanks deepspin this a very good piece...i found it very helpful
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kham thao
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DeepSpinLofts
1502 posts
Jul 14, 2009
2:08 PM
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Hi Kham....I'm glad you took precious time to read it.
NOTE: Below is a link to Ken Easley's website where Blacky (the 80ft roller above) can be found.
Ken Easley's Rollers
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Jul 14, 2009 2:17 PM
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yang501424
309 posts
Jul 14, 2009
1:40 PM
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I was told that Blacky's nestmate 738 which is a cock also, was better then blacky in the air but blacky was a better looker in the pen. Half of Ken's stock birds happens to land in the central valley here. Marcus do you have easley birds?
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Good Game Loft
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DeepSpinLofts
1503 posts
Jul 14, 2009
8:30 PM
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In regards to your question Yang501424; I have 2 birds (Cock + Hen) acquired 2 years ago from a friend that has Ken Easleys footprint all over them. Both have 514 blood and a great addition to my biogenetic breeding program. Both are well bred, highly intelligent birds of good temperament and nice type.
In conclusion... let me add that Easley's family of rollers have a smooth feel in the hand and are exceptionally fast spinners.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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Scott
2372 posts
Jul 15, 2009
3:12 PM
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Marcus, this is a very good artical and much more subtance that the hard/soft color thing.
I might add that it is also my approach to these birds and how I see the make-up of the breed.
As for Blacky, I heard that he was a whiz in the air but couldn't produce the same, is it a line that has gone anywhere ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 15, 2009 3:14 PM
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Scott
2373 posts
Jul 15, 2009
4:45 PM
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Kou, do we want those where the mates have to be found ? won't they just make more of the hit and miss ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 15, 2009 4:48 PM
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Squabby*32
41 posts
Jul 16, 2009
2:33 AM
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Blacky is a very good looking black roller.
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DJJeffman Spinners
ATAPWGIYAHTLY
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yang501424
311 posts
Jul 16, 2009
7:53 AM
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Scott your right. Blacky has been owned by many people and maybe the reason why was he wasn't able to produce like himself.
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Good Game Loft
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kham89
242 posts
Jul 16, 2009
2:22 PM
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To me a good stock is one tat do good both in the air n on the ground. For sure i think blacky can be a hell of a spinner but if it aint got the ground aspect your jus wasting ur time. It mite have some top notch bird behind it but like scott was telling me today stay away from the name forget it. Dont breed it cuz it has something good behind it....if it has been on many hens and many have try him in their loft and the bird didnt do so well in producing...this is a sign. We dont want birds where we have to find the click hen for it to produce us spinners. Wat if it takes u foreva lol
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kham thao
Short NinJa Loft
Last Edited by on Jul 16, 2009 2:24 PM
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dave
429 posts
Jul 16, 2009
5:20 PM
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Kou,
I have a soft spot for smokey blue bars. I like that color but at the end all that matters is how they do in the air and then ultimately in the stock loft. Something you said don't make sense to me but I'll talk to you later tonight to clarify it.
Anywho, lets get ready to fly the FF. Hope to see a good kit of birds from you.
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kham89
244 posts
Jul 16, 2009
6:52 PM
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Kou wich red headed are u talking bout...is it the red headed blue bar? if it's tat one...it's full sister to blacky...kou a bird being sold for $2000+ does not mean and prove tat it's good...as a matter of fact it jus maybe can be....u can ask dave bro...he has a few tat are considered good birds...were these good ones he got given to him or bought? did he bought 921? no!!!!!! ur trying to say tat if a bird is sold for a high price it must be good....so if i sell a bird tat high then i can consider it good? awhile back i remember scott posted on here that a few yrs back he bought i think two birds from the WC auction tat are out of monty neible team...he pay a fortune for it...but the bird wasnt all tat and he didnt considered it good...i mite be got the info wrong but i remember scott saying he got some birds off the auction and he pay a fortune for them and they didnt work out for him...anyone correct me if im wrong...anyways good birds to me are priceless!!
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kham thao
Short NinJa Loft
Last Edited by on Jul 16, 2009 6:59 PM
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kham89
245 posts
Jul 16, 2009
6:55 PM
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lmao dave...dave u also got a soft spot for andulusion
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kham thao
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winwardrollers
270 posts
Jul 16, 2009
7:39 PM
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Great article...poor body type for a roller.
I would guess that Blacky is not one of the favorites ...just average. I have seen better type birds from this family.
Bwinward
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yang501424
312 posts
Jul 16, 2009
10:30 PM
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I was told that ken sent his dad some smokey blue bar and it sucked. 936 is way better then blacky anyday. Of course you know this but I will say it again Ken's best producing hen now is off 936. Xue has the best easley stock birds around town here because you can put the word "proven" on them.
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Good Game Loft
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kham89
246 posts
Jul 17, 2009
11:17 AM
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Ying i heard u got a easley coming in super good bro. Xue say he gave it to u? wich one is it...i 4got wat he tole me ...say gave to u or u breed it out of his stuff not sure...the champion is 443!!!!
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kham thao
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yang501424
313 posts
Jul 17, 2009
11:43 AM
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All rumors kham LOL.
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Good Game Loft
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kham89
248 posts
Jul 17, 2009
11:57 AM
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NO way lol...bro i saw ur bird fly...super young n throwing 20ft...man u hiding the gold at ur place bro...how them laron stuff coming bro..u still breeding?
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Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
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yang501424
314 posts
Jul 17, 2009
2:23 PM
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Yeah I do have a few doing around there but right now there moulting pretty hard. Talking about gold, I just got off the phone with LaRon and he said that hes gonna send me a real gold hen to breed with this one cock that I have then we'll be talking.
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Good Game Loft
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kham89
250 posts
Jul 17, 2009
3:25 PM
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ohhh man shoot tat super nice...ur set bro...now share the gold with all of us lol
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Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
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kham89
251 posts
Jul 17, 2009
5:57 PM
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kou each individual has their own set of rule to consider a bird good....urs n mine are different....i admit blacky it's one hell of a spinner cuz it can hit 80ft...read my post again bro...i was talkin about how i would rate out a bird to be a good one in general...with the whole 2000+ and all...i did not literally say BLACKY IS NOT GOOD...but since u accused me already why not ill say it rite now...blacky is not good i dont like him...i take 443 any day...but overall im jus tryin to say tat u cant jus say a bird is good becausee of its price and to me a bird is good if it does good in the air n on the ground tat my man point i want to get across to u not bout blacky isnt good....n bout the red headed hen me n dave got it clear up already she is off blacky...to me 443 is the champion u dont need to consider her champion kou...jus like ying consider 936 a better bird...kou talkin crap bout blacky and having ken birds is two different things...if we talk crap bout ken bird but say have them maybe tat wont make sense...actually maybe it will cuz jus trying to point out wat we dont like or wat we are seeing....n be careful of wat ur sayin..u say no one will reject anything off blacky..i know a few guys lol....n wats with ur friend gettin on this calling me out...i dont hear him kou..i hear u sayin he callin me out only...maybe ur intention was to call me out for urself?? i dont have time to fly against u guys...wats the point????? lil kids game to me...i have more important to do...focus on my bird n get myself a family like a few guys and work my way up in producing a true birmingham not culls tat are sold out in the name of a good family, sometimes people are so into the rep of the family tat they pay no attention to the bird thus having more culls out there...
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Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
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yang501424
315 posts
Jul 17, 2009
6:04 PM
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Blacky will probably smoke 936 in the air but not in the pen. Hear what dave said "and then ultimately in the stock loft". Kou did your friend john ever produce anything that can ball up 80ft tight? I know you have blackys son and daughter do you have any that can ball up 80ft tight that I can come see? I think the reason why Xue and Dave wanted the smokey blue bar is because they both have a soft spot for it not because it comes form blackys daughter. LOL
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Good Game Loft
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kham89
252 posts
Jul 17, 2009
6:09 PM
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u sure u pick out 443...man i heard a different story...n kou i laugh at u too sometimes bro...u say i got culls wen u neva saw my bird....but ill admit i have culls cuz none of mine are proven...u admit u dont have culls u say u got proven or off proven tat are good birds...but every family produce culls lol...n bout the baggin birds off of u....man to man talk...truth comes out...i was messing with u i have no intention of gettin birds from u.....jus tryin to see wat kind of person u are...u tole me last time u dont want to give me birds cuz u didnt know me...bro wen i ask u we already met n u know me lol...i think u wanted money from me...n the freeloading...it's call charity lol...gettin new guys start it...building a friendship...promoting the hobby n the birds...u freeloadin off ken rite now wat u talkin bout hating on freeloaders lol
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Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
Last Edited by on Jul 17, 2009 6:11 PM
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kham89
253 posts
Jul 17, 2009
6:17 PM
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kou u are breeding for the name...i feel sad :(
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Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
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kham89
254 posts
Jul 17, 2009
6:48 PM
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kou i will love to see that one day...ken gave to u for free then ur freeloading.....me n my homie we got birds from dave, xue, ying, sid u name it...they gave to us...we freeloading...why hate on freeloaders wen ur one?....u saw it too wen we came down there for WC prelim...they offer us n tole us to fly it out...maybe ur hating lol..u in the club and around the corner but they not givin any to u....why would we hate tat u got free birds from ken?? it's their a point, a reason...do we get anything out of it....i dont think so...think bro...get tat crazy thought out of ur head
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Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
Last Edited by on Jul 17, 2009 6:49 PM
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yang501424
316 posts
Jul 17, 2009
8:19 PM
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Kou we aren't jealous that we don't have any of blackys son or daughter. More power to you if you have tons of them. I just hope that you are stocking for performance and not after names. I don't work with easley stuff so in the near future we will know whos bird have the best velocity.
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Good Game Loft
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DeepSpinLofts
1506 posts
Jul 17, 2009
9:12 PM
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Scott don't take this the wrong way.... but I would rather breed from the type of Blacks that you were flying during the NBRC Convention fly.
An 80ft Black is rather deep and may genetically lack certain physical qualities required to achieve exceptional velocity. This is from my own personal experience with Blacks, Pepperheads and Tortoiseshells which have rolled distances exceeding +60ft here at Deep Spin Lofts. I would fly that depth of a roller as a hot-ticket item in the back yard for onlookers to gawk at instead of trying to breed it.
I prefer breeding within the 15ft-60ft depth range... however... anything is possible and a change of heart is always open.
By the way.... 80ft is something folks back in the hood would call about 3 poles in the air. That's deeeeep!
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Jul 17, 2009 9:23 PM
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dave
433 posts
Jul 17, 2009
9:34 PM
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Guys, just fly your birds. If we all put this much effort into our birds we will have better birds. Blacky, 936, 443, they all are ken's stuff. Each one must've been special for Ken to keep them and breed from them. I want to see more action and less talk so lets go; the FF is just around the corner.
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yang501424
317 posts
Jul 17, 2009
9:44 PM
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Xue why did you have to get ban. LOL
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Good Game Loft
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birdman
723 posts
Jul 17, 2009
9:57 PM
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When did Ken start selling his stock birds? You guys must have paid some serious coin for those birds.
Russ
PS: what have you guys got?
Last Edited by on Jul 17, 2009 10:55 PM
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yang501424
318 posts
Jul 17, 2009
10:38 PM
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Ken sells his breeders starting $500.00+ per bird. I never bought any birds from him But I would rather spend that money on Herb Sparks bird for the same price.
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Good Game Loft
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yang501424
319 posts
Jul 17, 2009
11:59 PM
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We all like money but I think us fancier starts to go down the wrong road when we start to love it.
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Good Game Loft
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DeepSpinLofts
1508 posts
Jul 18, 2009
12:24 PM
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Birdman... my 514 line cost me around $250.00 in venture capital (including Breeding pens + V-perches)to incorporate this high velocity ro-gene pool into my Plona & Jaconette family of American-Birmingham Roller Pigeons.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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Scott
2378 posts
Jul 18, 2009
1:37 PM
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Why Herb Sparks over Easly ? What makes either of these guys birds worth 500 bucks ? the right marketing and build-up? LOL LOL ,but, a solid prolific true blue stock bird would be worth every penny, but few lofts have even a few prooven birds realisticly , as it takes no less than a few years in stock to really know their value.
I would say your money would be much better spent on the Easly birds, I think that Ken is a much more talanted breeder whose proof is in the pudding.
But on the same hand I would venture to say that Kens birds on a whole will be slipping due to his fly conditions, if you can't or won't fly them properly you can't maintain the line,it's that simple.
(Ken sells his breeders starting $500.00+ per bird. I never bought any birds from him But I would rather spend that money on Herb Sparks bird for the same price. )
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Good Game Loft
Last Edited by on Jul 18, 2009 2:06 PM
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Scott
2379 posts
Jul 18, 2009
2:40 PM
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LaRon, whose family were those breeders from Sparks ? How many generations off of Pensom/McCauly were these Sparks breeders ? the Joe's put more generations on them from the source than Sparks did.
LaRon fact is these guys were trying to get close to the Pensom birds, it had nothing to do with Herb, and yes I know Alex, why do you ask ?.
Now Easly has prooven his birds over decades in the air, Billings has done the same, these guys are breeders that selected and prooved out what is in their lofts.
Some want reputations that are built by others because a few birds went through their hands (a generation or so off of others birds), the fact is they played a little or no part in anything.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 18, 2009 2:50 PM
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3757
1270 posts
Jul 18, 2009
3:15 PM
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"these guys are breeders that selected and prooved out what is in their lofts." I guess you are saying Herb has not been doing anything according to your observation or standard. I woud be willing to bet you have never spoken to Herb, seen his birds fly or know him at all. That is like me saying I know something about a guy in Zambia whom I have never met before. Everyone has an opinion but if you do not know someone how can you or anyone say anything about them. I never met you in my life and if someone ask me what I thought of your birds I would say I never met Scott before and I have never had the pleasure of seeing his birds fly at least 10 times at maturity to give an opinion but my philosophy is different than yours.
Making judgements about people we have never met or know is no different to me than someone stereotyping a group of people whom they know nothing about. It is the same thing!
Last Edited by on Jul 18, 2009 3:19 PM
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Scott
2380 posts
Jul 18, 2009
4:23 PM
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LaRon, I'm sure that he is a great guy, but the fact is these days reputations are made by the birds themself's in the air, the days of talk are long gone and word of decent birds gets around pretty quick.
LaRon, the fact is he has sold many birds for big money, not for his reputation but fot the pedigree behind them, there is a reason that there is little demand for them decades later except for interest generated by a few such as yourself, his name in the roller world would die other wise, not so with a flyer/breeders such as say Billings as an example, why do you think that is ? As for myself, I'm a you gotta show me kind of guy
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 18, 2009 5:35 PM
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Good Times Roll
46 posts
Jul 18, 2009
4:57 PM
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Here is a E-mail I have from Herb a few years ago and why its costly, Its not easy to get a bird from him and if he agrees its still another 2 month process for him to pick one out for you, For most if its a money thing they would ship to you the next day to not loose the deal ;D
RL
I expect to have a huge and early breeding season. I plan to have several
1207 matings. after I get a little momentum into the season I'll try to
breed something for you at a reduced price.
I'm sure it appears that I'm all about the money sometimes, but my prices
are high so I don't have to sell them. I want to keep them all, cull the
worst and stock the best. Every bird I part with is a dent in that process.
And I don't even CONSIDER parting with birds that are from the lower end of
my flying program. I want to part with a bird that I think I can be proud
of. That means I have to be able to afford to let it go. Who the hell can
afford to part with a bird that they can be proud of. At $500 I get to
keep them. But I know how it is when you want a pigeon. I'll see what I
can do.
As for the grizzle.... I don't have a large number of grizzles, but again I
plan to breed big. I'll just have to see what comes out. I don't have a
grizzle in my YB kit, but have 3 in my OB kit which is still moulting and
will be reflown mid November. I'll be in Hawaii for the first two weeks in
November.
I do have a good number of birds in this family, just not many grizzles at
the moment.
Herb
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Good Times Roll
47 posts
Jul 18, 2009
5:00 PM
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p.s. I got my grizzle from him for FREEEEEE lol
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Scott
2381 posts
Jul 18, 2009
5:07 PM
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What was up with a Grizzle ? why were you stuck on a particular color ? What was the out come of the bird ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Good Times Roll
48 posts
Jul 18, 2009
5:16 PM
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I like grizzles,She was a slow layer but anyways I had an accident here the next year and lost her and 2 other hens one from Billings and another from Herb OUCH!
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
464 posts
Jul 18, 2009
5:31 PM
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The late Dick Belew of Wichita, KS had a lot of "514" birds that he got from Herb Sparkes. I never saw anything that I would spend 50 cents for let alone $500. I think a lot of guys were trying to get as close to Pensom's old line as they could without regard to the performance of the individual birds. A lot of pedigree breeding going on. I think Laron must have a shrine to Pensom somewhere in his house because anytime anyone says anything about that line, he feels he has to defend old Bill. Sorry if I stepped on any toes but I am tired of holding back with all the BS that has been spread around on this site lately. Feather merchants are still feather merchants regardless of the price of their birds!!
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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yang501424
320 posts
Jul 18, 2009
5:57 PM
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Kou I didn't buy those birds your cousin did and If i bought them I would have them at my house and you would of saw them but I dont. The most bird I ever paid was $50.00 and I think 500.00 for a bird is ridiculous. Kou I know you never bought a bird for 500 from Ken but you did offer 500.00 for 536.
Scott I was wondering how much did you paid for those nieble birds and why did you buy them in the first place? I heard that you gave them away. Do you think that it was you that didn't know how to manage these birds or it was the bird that sucked. Do you think that If nieble himself had that same pair would he had done a better job then you did? If someone was to ask you what do you think about niebles bird would you said that you had a pair once and the birds sucked and gave it away or would you say that it was to hard to manage and you gave it away. Was it you or was it the birds?
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Good Game Loft
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kham89
255 posts
Jul 18, 2009
6:03 PM
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Ying get on the chat tonite...u too kou...dave wants to ask all something...i also wanna talk to u guys....poker n roller talk...ite buds?
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Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
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Scott
2382 posts
Jul 18, 2009
6:42 PM
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Yang, a couple things happened where those birds were concerned, one was money was flowing and if I wanted it bought it, it was that simple.
The hen supposably flew in the last W/C kit, I question that now as I later heard rumor that the birds I received were not the same that neible had selected for the auction ,for those that don't know Monty died in an Auto accident the day after his last W/C fly , the bulk of the birds went to a guy that turned them into a money making machine.
As for the pair, no it wasn't management, good birds roll no matter what, it is when the birds mature where managment plays in with the harder families, as my own I might add, the pair simply didn't work out, with any bird or pair that is what we have to figure out, is it worth breeding ? the fact is the chances are agaisnt most birds working out in the stock loft, we have to be honest with ourselfs regardless what we pay for it or what it is out of, culls are still culls regardless of the cost.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 18, 2009 7:31 PM
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tthoj
84 posts
Jul 18, 2009
6:43 PM
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I got questions Kou, Since you said Blacky is a good bird and cost 2g, did blacky ever produce any good birds that someone in the rollerworld is using as a foundation bird???? i dont mean blacky's sister, nor does his brother counts, I want to know blacky himself, before this thread got going, you said you friend owned the bird, but gave the bird back to ken, why?why? if you are so into the bird and get irritated from people talking about blacky, why give him back to ken? saying ken promise not to sell any birds blacky produce to anyone???? doesnt that means 2g down the drain, you guys paid 2gs for a bird, then give it back, dont make since bro?
I want to know from YOU, not ken says this, ken says that....your personal opinon of the bird itself....
bragging dont count in my book, let see some action less talking......
Thomas THao
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Scott
2383 posts
Jul 18, 2009
6:56 PM
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What way am I supposed to take it Marcus ? I'm a little confused, for the record I don't have black,just dark check.
(Scott don't take this the wrong way.... but I would rather breed from the type of Blacks that you were flying during the NBRC Convention fly.)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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kham89
256 posts
Jul 18, 2009
7:27 PM
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Nah Ying come on poker bro lol...ALL IN!!
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Kham Thao
(0_o)Short NinJa Loft(o_0)
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DeepSpinLofts
1509 posts
Jul 18, 2009
8:30 PM
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That's what I thought Scott. Those were decent Birmingham rolling pigeons in the air.
If it make things less complicated.... I have "Dark Checks" too.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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Scott
2385 posts
Jul 19, 2009
12:24 PM
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Marcus, with a couple hundred people in my yard I will take "decent", They can certainly be better depending on the day, but I have seen them a whole lot worse also LOL
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
2386 posts
Jul 19, 2009
12:31 PM
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Joe, on a whole I think that pedigree breeding on that line has been a huge problem over the years , but then that problem is also widespread with any birds that get a name.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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