JEFF WILSON
36 posts
Oct 26, 2009
6:17 PM
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what is the deal with someone being a back yard flyer.it's like if your a back yard flyer you'r opinion means nothing and your birds are not as good.well i will go as far as to say everybody on this site started somewhere and it was probably in you'r back yard.or a mentors back yard.iam in my 2nd year into this and if things work out i have got comp. on my mind next fall.but when loose or draw my real enjoyment is a hot cup of coffee sun just about to rise and the young birds i raised.flying and doing what you hoped they would do when you made that cross.just remember guys we all have one thing in common we love the birmingham roller. Jeff
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3764 posts
Oct 26, 2009
6:24 PM
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Here Here, sometimes I think too many forget that pure and simple pleasure...you stoked my fire all over again! Thanks for a timely post.
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
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rollinfever
141 posts
Oct 26, 2009
6:47 PM
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Jeff you are right..doesnt matter if your black white mexican asian etc..we have that same love for the birmingham and thats powerful.
Last Edited by on Oct 26, 2009 6:47 PM
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katyroller
612 posts
Oct 26, 2009
8:11 PM
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Jeff,
This is a battle that has been fought for as long as I have been a member of this site and I'm sure we will still be fighting the day this site closes. The majority on this site are backyard fliers and some of those that fly competitions should be backyard fliers.
As you know the secret to this hobby is to enjoy what you fly.
Tracey
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Windjammer Loft
983 posts
Oct 27, 2009
5:59 AM
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From reading past post on this subject. The "main" reason that the "comp" guys complain about "us" backyard flyers is. "We" don't know the caliber of our birds unless we compete. I say "To each his own".
I got all my birds from reputable breeders. So from the start I have an idea they are good. It's like beauty..... Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just my opinion...
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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shukz
90 posts
Oct 27, 2009
6:29 AM
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Im a backyard flyer with some good stock that im breeding from(mason,deano forster and Ollie harris)i love my birds,i put lots of effort in and i am happy with the results,my rollers brings me enjoyment and thats what means the most too me,so i couldnt care if some people look down on backyard flyers,because those guys that look down on us dont bring me joy,my rollers does!
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Shukz(RSA)
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
555 posts
Oct 27, 2009
6:35 AM
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Paul... The most of the comp fliers think they have 50caliber birds when in reality it,s only 22caliber shorts there flying.Back yard fliers are looking for that perfect, deep, high velocity,straight,clean donut hole roll.Competing with them would not prove anything in my view.A completely different ball game.JDA
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3433 posts
Oct 27, 2009
7:16 AM
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Good post shukz.its all about the joy you get from these pigeons,some get joy from just competing,some get a joy just sitting in there back yard looking up alone.
I felt like that when I first came on this site a couple of years back.I thought I didn't belong here because I was a backyard flier..but the one who don't belong here is the one who thinks he is better than the rest or the one who looks down on a backyard flier.
got to remember some folks don't compete because they don't want to or can't or like being by themself..what ever it is is there business ...debating is a good thing but looking down at people or thinking you better than them is way out of line. when it all comes down to it we all have a place under the sun, and we all look up to the sky, its all good but the good feeling stops when you start looking down on somebody or when you get hit by the BOP..but that last one comes with the territory...the first one don't that comes from withen you..no excuse..
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Ralph.
Pigeons are not our whole life, but they damn sure make our lives whole!" ~
Last Edited by on Oct 27, 2009 7:18 AM
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
556 posts
Oct 27, 2009
7:25 AM
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Hello to the English fliers,Do anyone of you know if John Huntington is still flying birds? He is from West Yorkshire.Thanks Joe
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katyroller
613 posts
Oct 27, 2009
8:09 AM
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My friend Longroller found the perfect quote for this post. Enjoy, I know I did!
"Be not angry that you cannot make others as you wish them to be, since you cannot make yourself as you wish to be." (Thomas a' Kempis 1379-1471)...
Tracey
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George R.
112 posts
Oct 27, 2009
8:23 AM
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Ralph
no one is looking down on any Backyard Flyer , its only when those Backyard Flyers say that they breed for true birmingham rollers then the Comp guys want to see it.
I have seen way better spinning birds at lofts that Fly comps then at the lofts that dont . ITS REALLY THAT SIMPLE.
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George Ruiz
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katyroller
614 posts
Oct 27, 2009
8:46 AM
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George,
I joined a small club in Santa Ana, Ca. during the early 90's when I first got into BR's. I was all ears and had everyone telling me how to win in the comps, have a tight kit that performed frequent big breaks. This was drummed into my head, there was no talk about depth or roll quality. I remember the first time I flew a bird that gave me 25'+ rolls. I was told that the bird was not going to be good for flying comps because it was too deep. I read a story about Red Badge Tumblers and they sounded exactly like what we were after. Maybe it was the club I joined or maybe the rules have changed over the years.
Tracey
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George R.
113 posts
Oct 27, 2009
8:51 AM
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katy
The ideal depth for Comp is 30 feet .
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George Ruiz
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3434 posts
Oct 27, 2009
9:38 AM
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I hear you George but when you mention backyard fliers in general you have to be specific if your not talking about all of us..now I have to say I have true birmingham roller in my back yard bred by the competion guys.you welcome to see then fly. I fly every other day at 7:Am or at 4:30 pm.if you come by on lock down you won't see any .you have to take that up with the BOP..Matter of fact I got some from some of your friends in Cali..
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Ralph.
Pigeons are not our whole life, but they damn sure make our lives whole!" ~
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George R.
118 posts
Oct 27, 2009
10:09 AM
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Ralph you will have lots of Fun with those Birds ralph "TONS OF SPIN"
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George Ruiz
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Ty Coleman
787 posts
Oct 27, 2009
3:38 PM
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Comp guy's fly in there backyard at least 364 days a year and 363 if you make the finals 362 if you fly the world cup and 361 if you make the w\c finals. There are pro's and con's to both comp and backyard flying and large differences between the 11 and 20 bird comps. Unison breaking is the major flaw of the comp flyer that the backyard guy does not get hung up on, and I can see were the backyard guy could get loft blind not visiting other roller lofts. We all share the same hobby so why is this a big deal ?
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Phantom1
230 posts
Oct 27, 2009
4:35 PM
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Looks like history is repeating itself again. Here's what I've learned.
Don't even waste your time trying to defend what you do in your own backyard. Whether or not you fly your birds, don't fly your birds, fly them in competition, don't fly in competition. Just don't!
The reason the term "backyard flier" exists, is because there needed to be a label affixed to those that didn't "put up of shut up" as it's been so eloquently stated by many active fliers.
There is a stigma that surrounds, and it is mostly so against, the so-called "backyard flier". And it boils down to what you would call, in a loose sense of the term, credibility. I've been told flat out that if I don't compete, then my birds are junk. In other words, if there's not somebody else passing their judgement onto my birds on a given day under unforeseen circumstances, I can't have anything worth feeding. People with this "breed" need something tangible to be able to call the birds OK or worthy. Since there's not a written standard, the only resolution is the subjectivity of a score given by a judge that you hope is in a good mood ;-)
Again, I don't allow that to pursuade me to do anything different and I would hope that it doesn't anyone else unless they're not happy with what they're doing, or strive to compete. If you're searching for something new or to enter the world of competitive roller flying, then I would totally support anyone that I could in any way I could. Just understand that either way, you're going to have a cloud of criticism and judgement raining down on you. It doesn't matter what you do, that's just going to happen. So don't rain down on this RD or that RD or a certain organization for its shortfalls. You hold the unltimate decision with what you do.
So "backyard flier"? Posh! This topic is bogus as well as the terminology. What we're really talking about is the ability of one person to be able to quantitively speak of another person's birds based on a score. I don't have a problem with it, just call it what it is. I'll say honestly that this particular conversation is one of the reasons I will never fly in competition. If I ever do, and whether I win or loose, there's no prestige - only a year long breakdown of what went right or wrong among God know's how many cliques.
There....I vented :-)
E
Last Edited by on Oct 27, 2009 4:49 PM
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deano
244 posts
Oct 27, 2009
4:36 PM
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JDA john hunty still has birds comes up to middlesbrough and judges once a year also my best mate les bezance is a back yard flyer now and his birds are as good as anyones he says enjoys them alot more without the expecting to do well in the comps
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3757
1305 posts
Oct 27, 2009
5:20 PM
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Phantom - You are a person of extreme integrity and intellect!
Last Edited by on Oct 27, 2009 5:21 PM
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DeepSpinLofts
1586 posts
Oct 27, 2009
6:08 PM
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Hi LaRon...
Let us not forget that every productive thought of a genius must be a thought of enthusiasm.
...and George
My ideal Birmingham Roller pigeon must be capable of.... and rolling in the air approx. 30ft or more in depth (which is the height of the average telephone pole we see) with a tremendous amount of velocity on a very tight spin.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Oct 27, 2009 6:08 PM
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PAUL R.
114 posts
Oct 27, 2009
9:15 PM
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Who's to say for those who fly only for the true BR and fly as " backyard flyers " only, that, if these true Birmingham Rollers if entered in a competition won,t begin to fall apart. Begin to rolldown because they cant bring the best to the table before they fall apart. Yup, backyard flyers dont have to push to what there BR are really made of. You can't just claim that a person has the potential to be a great fighter until that person has been managed and trained to compete. And then we will see if he can become a champion. He has to perform. Not just flex his muscles.
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roller alley
184 posts
Oct 27, 2009
10:38 PM
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you are right training for the comp guys,is first be a back yard flyer then compete.im still in training lol
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Ty Coleman
788 posts
Oct 28, 2009
4:09 AM
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Paul, if a birds going to fall apart it will do it on any given day, not just because it is being flown in comp. No insult meant but that statement is about as far out as ive heard. The handler can ruin a good kit of birds trying to push them to far, I did it with barley but that was me not the birds.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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katyroller
615 posts
Oct 28, 2009
6:54 AM
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Paul,
Brother your ship is sinking fast, grab a life boat while you can! LOL
"Who's to say for those who fly only for the true BR and fly as " backyard flyers " only, that, if these true Birmingham Rollers if entered in a competition won,t begin to fall apart. Begin to rolldown because they cant bring the best to the table before they fall apart."
You make it sound as if these birds have a goal in sight and that the backyard kit might not have enough heart to reach the goal and just give up. Seriously..
"Yup, backyard flyers dont have to push to what there BR are really made of."
Try this out. Backyard fliers "may" not concern themselves with conditioning their birds to the highest level in order to test their full potential.
"You can't just claim that a person has the potential to be a great fighter until that person has been managed and trained to compete. And then we will see if he can become a champion."
You do not train a kit to compete. You manage them through breeding and feeding and condition them to perform to their inherited best. You can not train a bird to be a champion, it is born a champion and the best you can do is manage it to ensure it developes to it's fullest potential.
Tracey
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PAUL R.
115 posts
Oct 28, 2009
9:17 AM
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Tracey, thankyou for pointed that out. With what you said, ( manage ) , then lets see if the backyard flyers can ( manage ) to bring out the best in there birds to the table. Compete ! Dont laugh to hard now, you may hurt yourself. :)
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George R.
122 posts
Oct 28, 2009
9:31 AM
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Paul now you know that backyard Flyers are not going to fly in Comps , they are to busy trying to find one good pigeon in thier loft. Thats a tuff thing to do so give them a break.
I am still waiting for them to put together a Individual fly so I can see if my Red Badges can compete with thier Birds.
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George Ruiz
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michael salus
70 posts
Oct 28, 2009
10:15 AM
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I might be stepping on my d--k here, but I don't understand the one's who compete and have a problem with the one's who don't. I have been to more comp. flys and saw kits that weren't worth the gas and backache to watch then I care to count. I'll bet the best kit you ever saw wasn't during a comp. fly. It's all about management and if you think backyard flyers can't manage the birds than you ain't to bright.JMHO. Peace!!!
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MJ
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Velo99
2183 posts
Oct 28, 2009
10:22 AM
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Phantom,
The difference is like playing a game of golf by yourself,not keeping score and saying you can golf as good as Tiger Woods. You might and then you might not.
A BY flyers birds are not judged by an organization,and therefore their performance is judged by the fancier. Their performance rating could be prejudiced.
I am not getting into this we and they labeling because most of us fly solo for the majority of the year. Just like comp flyers there are good birds and bad birds,good managers and bad managers,serious and not quite so serious flyers.
THERE WILL BE a mixed bag of results through out the year no matter who you are.
I think what gets the BY guys going is the skepticism of the comp guys as to what you REALLY have in your kitboxes. My advice; be a duck and let it roll of your back. Thats what I do after every competetion. Look forward my friend, keep looking forward.
What any one says on this site,in these pages or anywhere else except in your backyard under a kit of rollers is purely conjecture.
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
___ ~_____ _
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__14___()_)\__\
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George R.
123 posts
Oct 28, 2009
10:25 AM
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Mike
Again most Guys that dont compete are great Guys but there are a certain few who degrade the kit Competitors by saying that any one that breeds for Comps is destroying the Birmingham roller as a Breed . And you also have those few that talk smack when a flyers Birds dont perform to the best of thier abilities , yet they dont even have a Kit entered in the Fly.
If guys choose not to fly in Comps thats Ok but they should not use the excuse that they breed for the True Birmingham roller .
I know for a fact that all the fanciers that are Competing are breeding for the True Birmingham roller they just want a WHOLE Kit of them .
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George Ruiz
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pat66
421 posts
Oct 28, 2009
11:11 AM
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What IS the difference between a COMP and a BACKYARD flyer EXCEPT a judge? I fly in my local club all summer and wanted to fly the NBRC and we lost the JUDGE at the LAST minute, do not we all fly hard - train hard - meds-vits- schedule to the best of OUR abilities-and breed our finest spinners and kitters and look for the best breaking birds we have?---------
Pat
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rollerman132
355 posts
Oct 28, 2009
11:51 AM
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If scoring points was such a big deal, why do they still run to Jerry Higgins for birds when he scores 10 points in the fall fly? It’s the quality that keeps them coming not the points. With all those soft marshmallow judges out there anyone can score 1000 points in the world cup LOL.
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JDA
GOLD MEMBER
558 posts
Oct 28, 2009
12:49 PM
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Every one should start out with 2000 points and every turn the kit has it should have points taken from its total.The one that has the least amount of points at the end of the day would be the winner. Plus the one,s with most of there points left would be able to say,I had a score of 1750 or whatever,Everybody is happy.(Fly for yourself and stay happy). JDA
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COYOTE33
204 posts
Oct 28, 2009
1:53 PM
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man how many times r we going to be stuck of this subject its a no win subject comp guys dont get it!
thanks phantom
coyote
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Phantom1
231 posts
Oct 28, 2009
3:06 PM
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Paul R says "With what you said, ( manage ) , then lets see if the backyard flyers can ( manage ) to bring out the best in there birds to the table. Compete!"
See - that is the exact sentiment I refer to. Put up or shut up! If they don't score, then they're crap. You've got something to prove! The whole world needs to know more about your birds and what color poop their great-great-great grandfather laid down after he mated that hen that came from so and so.
I honestly don't understand what the witchhunt against the backyard guys is for. Do you think you're owed something? Need more kits to get a judge out because ghost kits aren't cutting it any longer? Your competitions aren't struggling due to a lack of money - I can guarantee that. I don't believe there's a lack of interest either. There's plenty of you guys out there that like to compete with your birds.
Maybe instead of the backyard guys competing, it would be better if the roller competitions went away. Because I'm not getting it why 90%+ of the people with rollers are being challenged to compete when they're not even complaining about anything. Seems to me that they're pretty content with breeding their rollers their way.
Now if someone has a beef with someone that's boasting they can take out someone else, and they don't compete, well...then that's what they're asking for is is a competition of some sort. I don't and won't defend that guy. That's a whole different situation, and maybe that's what I'm missing with this whole topic.
Kenny - I completely agree with what you say. I'd really like to understand all of this and I hope there's more to it than "Compete or your birds are crap".
Thanks,
E
Last Edited by on Oct 28, 2009 3:13 PM
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katyroller
616 posts
Oct 28, 2009
5:56 PM
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The majority of the comp fliers like the backyard fliers really could care less if someone decides to compete or not. I have belonged to a comp club since 2001 and have never flown a fly with them. I attend the club flys and offer other members encouragement when they do well or poorly. I have never once had anyone question the quality of the birds I raise or why I attend the flys since I don't compete.
WHY?
I don't brag about my birds or put other fanciers birds down. I don't make claims that I am not prepared to back up. I respect other fanciers beliefs and practices, no matter how backward I think they might be. I believe in producing and promoting quality BR's, PERIOD. The only difference between myself and them? I choose not to compete at this time.
Tracey
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Tiffany
3 posts
Oct 28, 2009
6:19 PM
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Phantom 1,
I think for most guys its an ego thing..My birds are better than yours because I flew on such a day where everything was great, and my birds beat yours. Where as the guys you competed against had crappy weather, hawk, or miss-management. I think it would really tell the tale if the judges showed up un-announced just on any given day....
For some people it is to get another eye in the sky to in a sense get judged, but in the same sense to possibly point out some performance the owner hasn't noticed..
Their are many different judges that judge in many different styles. Truthfully one judge may score a bird, but the other judge wouldn't. It is all in what the judge prefers.
Therefore some say competitions is to prevent "loft blindness", but if that was truely the case just visiting a few other flyers, and seeing their birds perform could help in that area. Some say it is for the fellowship. Who knows, its your thing do what you want to do...I have nothing against comp flyers nor backyard flyers....To each his own, and the best of luck to the both.
No offence to anyone.
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PAUL R.
116 posts
Oct 28, 2009
6:20 PM
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Tracey, No offense , "but how exactly are you "Promoting Quality Birmingham Rollers"? Bye being part of something ( a club ) and has the opportunity to promote BR, but instead kicks back without participating! Now Im beginning to understand what a true backyard flyer likes and the advantages of promoting a BR.
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PAUL R.
117 posts
Oct 28, 2009
6:30 PM
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Hey George R, "Heres some humor" lol. I have a race car that was imported and I know it can go fast. Its been in the family since 1960. But people keep telling me that I should take it to the track and race this car that I know can go fast. Heck it was put together for racing. But im afraid it may fall apart. What if I blow a gasket,or a head or the transmission or why dont I just keep it in my yard. I know it can go fast, real fast. Heck I think it can due 200 miles flat at 5 seconds.
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katyroller
617 posts
Oct 28, 2009
6:44 PM
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Paul,
No offense taken. By attending the flys I am getting out of my backyard and seeing what other fanciers are doing with their birds and the level of performance they are getting out of their birds. Does this help me breed better BR's? I say yes because I am able to be honest with myself and admit when there are improvements in my family that need to be made. I don't make excuses for the lack of quality from my birds or myself. I could easily make excuses and tell myself that since I don't compete it really isn't important. I don't play the game that way and I know there are other backyard fanciers that don't either.
Tracey
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Windjammer Loft
986 posts
Oct 29, 2009
7:03 AM
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Phantom1....Iam with you 110%.... with the way you feel about competion
Fly High and Roll On
Paul
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3441 posts
Oct 29, 2009
9:20 AM
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Amen!guys do Paul get an Amen to that..straight to the point...
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Ralph.
Pigeons are not our whole life, but they damn sure make our lives whole!" ~
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2109 posts
Oct 29, 2009
9:21 AM
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Good post, Paul. I do want to refute any notion that the NBRC National Competition is in decline in any way. That is just not the case. In spite of the BOP and politics, the number of flyers who are willing to put their birds up to be scored by a judge, has steadily increased each year for several years, now. This speaks volumns about the intention and desire of most roller fanciers to focus their efforts on breeding better birds; for that is the primary result of competition. With competition comes the opinions of other more-experienced roller men, the comp flyer's attendance at other flyer's lofts, and the increase in focus of a flyer's efforts in his own lofts and with his own birds all tend to provide a learning experience through which one can improve the quality of birds that a flyer keeps. Most men are recognizing that fact. Above all, most men relish the comraderie and the fun that goes along with being involved with competition, and getting together with their friends in the sport.....sorta like attending the NBRC conventions. And that may be the premier reason for involvement in competition for many. The two major flies and the local flies are the highlight of the year in the fancy for many guys and gals, myself included. But not all roller men are gregarious. Some are loners and like it that way...just they and their birds...a cup of coffee or a brewski. And they should not be judged. They have every right. And as Paul said, we all began as backyard flyers and remain backyard flyers, ourselves, for the most of the year. I cherish that aspect of the sport equally. There is little real separation between the two camps....no reason for the "one-upsmanship" or discourse between us. We are of the same blood.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Oct 29, 2009 9:48 AM
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rollerman132
356 posts
Oct 29, 2009
10:18 AM
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Finally, someone with the guts to tell it like it is! Good work Paul. When you go to the shows or fly’s, all you hear is the bashing. I was in two clubs, and both failed due to politics. When is the last time you heard that coin collectors were kicking coins into each others teeth? I remember when I could fly my birds without having thick skin; those were the good old days. It use to be for fun what happened?
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Alohazona
668 posts
Oct 29, 2009
10:39 AM
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I'm not going to write a book on this,but it comes down to one thing"OUR ATTITUDES".We can either except things with grace or we can harden our hearts.....Aloha,Todd
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Phantom1
232 posts
Oct 29, 2009
11:28 AM
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Hey Paul,
Thanks for putting yourself out there from a Comp point of view. I'm sad because you said exactly what I feel from the Backyard flyer's view. As I pointed out to Paul R - the overall sentiments that go along with flying competition is the main reason I won't do it. These days you don't have anything to gain. Sure, if you win, you get this plastic doll smile from everyone until your family and team is picked apart to the point that there's absolutely nothing to be excited about or proud of anymore. That just sucks! That's the only word I can think of - SUCKS!
I agree with you Paul also in what you say about the future of the roller hobby. It won't take the NBRC to exist for rollers to be enjoyed by most everyone that keeps them. But the NBRC certainly does, as an organization, have the market cornered with organizing these competitive flys. I know it would be sad for those to go away, as I know it would take a lot of roller breeders with it.
So - good points and I agree,
Eric
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bman
727 posts
Oct 29, 2009
11:55 AM
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Well I just went and looked in the mirror and don't see a label on my back that says comp or backyard!
I prefer BR enthusiast that competes two days a year.
Only two days because the comp gemlins always show up on the big day.So far it has beem 35mph winds,out birds,bop's and just poor management decisions.
But guess what I'll be in the next one too!
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Ron
Borderline lofts
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2110 posts
Oct 29, 2009
12:04 PM
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Eric,
I have to disagree with your statement, "These days you don't have anything to gain. Sure, if you win, you get this plastic doll smile from everyone until your family and team is picked apart to the point that there's absolutely nothing to be excited about or proud of anymore. That just sucks! "
If all of mankind based its endeavors on the possibility that the naysayers might criticize, there would be few accomplishments of anykind. For example, there were many who thought Columbus was off his rocker for his plan to sail the oceans...and I feel certain that he had to put up with being picked apart by those saying there was nothing to gain. It's a good thing that he did not choose to sit on the sidelines to avoid their criticisms. That may not be such a great example, but I bet you can think of many other good ones that apply.
The point is that as one becomes more successful with his birds...and competition is just one measure of that success.....there is a measure of respect gained, that comes from your colleagues in the sport, both locally and nationally. I would challenge that this is plastic...maybe from the plastic people, but that is not any reflection on what we have accomplished and does not detract from it in any way. Those people will always be plastic. Those that live their lives to criticize others will always be a part of our lives. I simply choose not to base my activities in life in fear of their petty reprisals, and I would encourage others to do likewise. Those that try to pick apart your birds have little real impact....the scores speak for themselves...the accomplishments speak much louder than the critics. Their words have no real power over you or your reputation in the sport...only the power that you give them...
Cliff
Last Edited by on Oct 29, 2009 1:02 PM
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gotspin7
2574 posts
Oct 29, 2009
12:21 PM
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I am just a backyard flier that gets lucky once in a while. I agree with Pirate Paul had to say, AMEN. ----------
Sal Ortiz
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George R.
128 posts
Oct 29, 2009
12:22 PM
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I agree Cliff ,well said !!!
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George Ruiz
Last Edited by on Oct 29, 2009 12:25 PM
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gotspin7
2575 posts
Oct 29, 2009
12:23 PM
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Also, Pirate Paul, can you make your posts a little shorter,I am usually cross eyed by the time I get done with your posts! LOL.. JK.. Good work.. ---------- Sal Ortiz
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