nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3857 posts
Nov 24, 2009
1:48 AM
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Twenty Bird Kit Competition
1A - 8 Flew 1 Qualifier
1B - 14 Flew 1 Qualifier
1C - 0
1D - 6 Flew 1 Qualifier
1E - 10 Flew 1 Qualifier
2A - 0
2B - 7 Flew 1 Qualifier
3A - 19 Flew 2 Qualifiers
3B - 10 Flew 1 Qualifier
4 - 16 Flew 1 Qualifier
5 - 31 Flew 3 Qualifiers
6A - 14 Flew 2 Qualifiers
6B - 12 Flew 1 Qualifier
7A - 20 Flew 2 Qualifiers
7B - 9 Flew 1 Qualifiers
7C - 17 Flew 2 Qualifiers
8A - 6 Flew 1 Qualifier
8B - 9 Flew 1 Qualifier
9A - 43 Flew 4 Qualifiers
9B - 21 Flew 3 Qualifiers
9C - 18 Flew 3 qualifiers
9D - 22 Flew 3 Qualifiers
9E - 23 Flew 3 Qualifiers
9F - 0
9G - 11 Flew 1 Qualifier
9H - 9 Flew 1 Qualifier
13 - 14 Flew 2 Qualifiers
14 - 12 Flew 2 Qualifiers
Is there anything seen here worth discussing?
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2009 1:40 PM
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Velo99
2223 posts
Nov 24, 2009
5:10 AM
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Nick
I see 1b and 6b flew 12 and got 1 Q spot and 14 flew 12 and got two. I do know 6b flew every kit entered.
weird huh?
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
___ ~_____ _
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__14___()_)\__\
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2009 5:12 AM
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fhtfire
2225 posts
Nov 24, 2009
8:11 AM
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Kenny,
All that means is that they did not fly every kit entered.....some flew all some did not....remember..kits entered is for qualifiers...kits flown is for MF points...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2161 posts
Nov 24, 2009
8:20 AM
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What are your observations, Nick? I take it something must have caught your eye...
Cliff
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2009 8:21 AM
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3858 posts
Nov 24, 2009
12:17 PM
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You are right, Guil. Sorry about that.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3859 posts
Nov 24, 2009
12:23 PM
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Cliff,
It would seem to me that some regions may or could be "buying" qualifiers. Buying a lot of kits, but a lot of DNF's. My feelings is that you qualify by the number flown and not by the number bought.
If someone just wants to support the fly and pays the required fee to do so and doesn't fly, it should be just that; a donation.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2009 12:28 PM
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Velo99
2224 posts
Nov 24, 2009
12:29 PM
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Paul,
Yeah I know the score. I was just answering Nick BUT
could an additional Q spot for small regions be awarded on a percentage of kits flown rather than kits entered be out of the question? We flew 100% of the kits entered.
Maybe 100% with no dqs gets an extra or bonus spot? Dont want to make it too easy. There(could)be a reward for not using pay to play kits.
I have had several conversations with my guys about getting two q spots next year in the NBRC CF. Obviously from the list Nick posted they bought a q spot plain and simple. There were also several regions that got two spots with 14 kits. We could do that next year for sure by flying 100% of the kits entered. Its times like this I see the smaller regions getting hosed by the club and larger regions buying q spots. Region 4 really got hosed.. flew 16 and got one spot.
Whatever happened to the family membership discussion?
ps Nick I didnt see the dollar signs under the bought q spots. LOL
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
___ ~_____ _
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__14___()_)\__\
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2009 12:41 PM
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wa1tmaster
GOLD MEMBER
40 posts
Nov 24, 2009
12:31 PM
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Region 1E enter 10 and flew all.
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until next time.
THANKS,
WALTER PORCH
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Velo99
2225 posts
Nov 24, 2009
12:35 PM
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Good Job Walter!!!!
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
___ ~_____ _
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__14___()_)\__\
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fhtfire
2229 posts
Nov 24, 2009
1:20 PM
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Kenny,
As the rules are stated your qualifiers are based on kits entered...now in our region...every flier enters two kits...the second kit flown is up to them..but the HAVE to have two kits...No ghost kits!!...so basically when we turn in our money..everyone has two kits..but sometimes BOP will keep a flier from flying two..or they may just not want to waste time and money for a youngbird kit...basically it is up to the flier...if they want to fly the second kit..we fly it..plain and simple....to me...if a region is just entering one kit....and if everyone entered two...you get an additional qualifier...guess what...two would be entered....last year..I think we entered 30 and flew 17...this year we flew more....every year it is a little different....but anyway..why not get the extra qualifier...and why not give a little bit more money to the NBRC..the more kits entered..the more for the NBRC..so everyone is happy...
I myeself like the kits entered rule.....because it gives you more play room when doing the fly...and puts less pressure on the flier to put up a second kit just for a qualifier..I mean..could you imagine putting up the second kit and getting ripped by BOP just so your buddy can qualify...now that sucks...so I like that you have the option to fly the second kit...there is no benefit to flying every single kit....but there is a benefit to paying for the second kits..more money for NBRC...and having more options to fly or not to fly..based on unforseen circumstances....and it wont affect your qualifiers...
rock and ROLL
paul
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3863 posts
Nov 24, 2009
1:38 PM
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Hey Walter, you are right. I got into a big hurry and didn't seperate the DQ's from the DNF's. Sorry about that and I will go through and check it out and make the corrections.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3864 posts
Nov 24, 2009
1:47 PM
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Corrections made
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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George R.
201 posts
Nov 24, 2009
2:13 PM
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Well said Paul I totally agree with you ....
George
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
563 posts
Nov 24, 2009
2:16 PM
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Qualifiers should be based on kits flown, not kits entered. Paul your way is nothing more than a clever way to cheat. Requiring flyers to enter 2 kits is a deceptive practice that violates the spirit of the rules. There I said it and the loophole should be fixed by the EC.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3866 posts
Nov 24, 2009
2:29 PM
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I echo Joe B's analogy. It is a tough world out there and stuff happens. Hawks eat and family plans change; birds are sometimes ready and sometimes not. It still should be based on number of kits flown and only that. Easy rule; easy to police; easy to change. To keep the Region on the hook, you gotta fly them or risk screwing someone one out of a chance of going to the finals.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3867 posts
Nov 24, 2009
2:31 PM
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What if a region just has 9 kits signed up; should they be allowed to have a qualifier even though the rule says one qualifier per 10 kits?
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2009 2:32 PM
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
565 posts
Nov 24, 2009
2:42 PM
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When I look at region 1, there were 38 kits flown in 5 regions. My question is why are there 5 different regions? Can't be size of the region because our region covers 4 states, each of which is larger than their whole region!
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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cv rollers
499 posts
Nov 24, 2009
2:46 PM
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You MUST fly all kits other than that your just buying your Q spot,alot of deep pockets out there ..JMO
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Rick Flores
coachellavalleyrollers.net
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fhtfire
2231 posts
Nov 24, 2009
4:35 PM
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Joe,
We dont REQUIRE guys to buy 2 kits...2 kits are entered if they have them at the time the money is sent off....they are not required to have two kits....if they dont want two kits they just say no..and the club will not pay for the additional kit.
I beg to differ that it is deceptive and violates the spirit of the rules...what spirit..NOWHERE in the rules does it say every kit has to be flown...it does not even say that in the World Cup either....so what is the spirit of the rules...the rules just say that you get 1 qualifier for every 10 kits entered...so the spirit of the rules says...let me see...you get 1 qualifiers for 10 kits entered.....seems pretty clear to me
So let me ask you this....what makes it so legit to waste time and money to watch a kit of 4 month old birds fly in circles just to say they flew....come on guys..you have to be joking...if a flier says I dont want to fly my second kit for whatever reason that is legit..why should it affect everyone else for a qualifier.
You are not buying a qualifier....so I guess you just put them up..so some of these fliers can just not feed your birds for two days...let them up..shake the feed can...DQ...done...now it says DQ instead of DNF...now that seems logical to me...waste time and fuel to go through the motions....
To be honest I could care less either way....but I know that there are fliers that can barely afford to pay for the extra fuel and judge money..I had a couple fliers for the first time...exercise a hardship rule we have and the club paid for there fuel and judge money....so...its more then just flying or buying...the whole goal is to get as many fliers as possible.
I think we would cut off our nose despite our faces if we change the rule...because the NBRC is already having a tough time convering expenses....we basically gave them an extra 120.00 in our region...that is a plane ride from Sac to Utah...or a portion of it..lets add up the all the money the NBRC made to cover airfair etc during the fly....from the extra kits just this year that are DNF almost totals 3,000.00 that the NBRC collected that was extra...
So that I bet covered a BIG chunk of the expenses.....
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2009 4:47 PM
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fhtfire
2232 posts
Nov 24, 2009
4:45 PM
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Nick,
You posted..It still should be based on number of kits flown and only that. Easy rule; easy to police; easy to change. To keep the Region on the hook, you gotta fly them or risk screwing someone one out of a chance of going to the finals.
Both rules are no easier to police...you will just see more DQ instead of DNF....it is easy to Police both ways....the way it is now...they need two kits....that the RD can see with his own eyes...
You last line says it all..YOU HAVE GOT TO FLY THEM or risk screwing someone in your region for a Q spot.
Now...the way the rules are now...once the money is in and the flier flys his first kit and all the fliers fly there first kit..you are still guaranteed your qualifiers.....regardless of what happens...so no risk of screwing somebody.....so everyone is happy.
Lets say the other way..I choose not to fly for BOP..my choice..and a good friend of mine lets say Ken Firl or Dwight Wallace...or whomever...I choose not to fly..and they now are not allowed to qualify...now lets start the soap apera crap...where now Dwight is pissed at me for not flying....and then some other guys are pissed...then I get pissed and say screw you...they are my birds I can fly if I want...and then I quit...or maybe another flier quits..because he felt he got screwed...and then two of his buddies quit just to support...now the region is all screwed up....just becaue you have to fly.
Seems to me...that more animosity can be created or a chance for disagreements if there is so much pressure for one to fly....I know it must have been nice for Chuck Roe to call me and say he could not fly because of BOP..not going to fly his second team...and not feel that he was screwing someone out of a qualifing spot...to me that is messed up.
Now if there was a huge reason to fly everything....that would be fine...but to me its just to go through the motions........and I dont see a reason too...why not save fuel, time and money for the region by having the option to fly the second kit..and giving extra money to the NBRC...and most of all take the pressure off the fliers and the possibility of it not being fun if someone cant fly and another person feels it is not a good enough reason.
...Rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
2233 posts
Nov 24, 2009
4:58 PM
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Joe,
I also want to say that I hope you are not accusing myself or my region of cheating. Because I will tell you this..there are some things I can take and questioning my integrity is one that I can not. I will tell you this...I take integrity and honesty very serious...I have been in the fire service for 20 years and my job is based on integrity and honesty...you see...firefighters enter houses and businesses sometimes in the middle of the night..and we are TRUSTED to do the right thing and make sure that everything is there when we leave....we are also trusted enough to strip grandma in a medical emergency or even strip kids in bad trauma..and we are trusted by family members to help even in embarassing situations....so...I am far from a cheater...and I am far from breaking the rules...you see...in my job..if you break the rules someone gets hurt or killed...so I take the smallest rules very seriously.....and I have followed the rules as written....and I have followed the spirit of the rules...on how they are written....unless you can find me a section that says "spirit of the rules".....anyway...I dont jump to conclusions....especially with words on a computer screen....but I will not be called a cheater on an open forum....those who know me...know I am far from dishonest.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
566 posts
Nov 24, 2009
5:54 PM
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Paul,
You can rationalize it anyway you want to but if you are entering kits that you know will not be flown for the sole purpose of increasing the number of qualifiers then you are violating the spirit of the rules, plain and simple. It is not cheating per se but it is skirting the rules to achieve an advantage. Trust me I understand how rules or the violation of them can get some one harmed or worse, I spent 22 years in the military, including 3 years in combat. If you don't understand the "spirit of the rules" by this time, it would be a waste of time to try to explain it
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Velo99
2226 posts
Nov 24, 2009
5:56 PM
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Paul,
My suggestion was to award an extra spot to regions with only one qualifier who fly 100% of thier kits with no DQ`s.
If the emphasis is on finding good kits this is a step in the right direction.I was thinking this might add 3-5 spots a year and go a lot further in good will.
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V99
blue sky single beat
in cadance performing now
earth beckons the winged
drawn breath is let quickly forth
orchestral movement follows
___ ~_____ _
\__\_/-|_| \__\____
/()_)__14___()_)\__\
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fhtfire
2236 posts
Nov 24, 2009
6:07 PM
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Kenny,
Its not about the smaller regions getting hosed...lets just say that even the medium and bigger regions fly them all and just do the DQ thing..go through the motions...well..the smaller regions will still only have one qualifier....and having more qualifiers in the finals..to be honest to me...does not make a difference....when the finals start it is a whole new ball game....I know what you are talking about Kenny...our region had 1 or 2 qualifiers for years...and that was because most did not have a second kit...but now fliers are starting to realize that the second kit is a second chance at winning....and to be honest...if my first kit throws up some big numbers and we are on the last day of the fly....some may choose not to even fly the second kit....why risk losing some birds to BOP when you have already qualified....if the rules were different....then I decide not to fly..and again..I could screw a buddy...or hey..there are some that would do it just to screw a fellow flier...the way it is now....it removes any potential issues in the reason..and makes extra money for the fly....and the NBRC does not have to refund money....
Now....cheating is a huge word..and Kenny you know have known me for years....but if you can enter the second kits....do it....it gives your guys more flexibility to have a second shot....you get the extra qualifier....and if any unforseen circumstances arise from fliers or birds....you dont have to do any damage control....to me it nice to have the option.
The second kits are like buying an insurance policy....I am insured to have a second chance if I need it...and I am assured that the qualifiers are set before the fly and its nice to know if there is 1 spot open or 3....anyway..the more qualifiers...the better the region...especially for the new guys..most regions have the BIG DOG fliers....and when one more spot opens up..and the fliers on the edge have a chance to get in...makes it alot more fun...especially when some of the big dogs are always at the top.
Anyway...the odds dont change by putting a DNF or a DQ...you have 30 kits entered you get 3 qualifiers......if you fly 21 like our region....the other 8 kits would have had no bearing on the scores...or who qualified....most that did not fly the second kit had young birds..or BOP attacks...so...if we went to there house..and went through the motions...nothing would have changed except..more time and more money spent...its not hard to DQ a kit...call time in and start flagging them.>DQ.....shake the feed can..DQ.....and guess what..we are still in the same boat.....so it does not make sense to me...DQ or DNF.....how many DQ's this year are actually DQ's...I mean one region had over half DQ...all the second kits...hmmmm....DNF or DQ would not have made a difference....by no means am I accusing a region of putting DQ's and not flying...I am just saying....we only know what is on paper....
The NBRC would be stupid to change the rules...if we did...we would not have enough kits entered to support the fly....because lots of guys would not pay the extra money if it did not help get a qualifier by entering youngbirds....for most that is the only reason they enter..to help the region...anyway....
DONT TRIP OVER DOLLARS TO PICK UP PENNIES!!!
rock and ROLL
paul
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
568 posts
Nov 24, 2009
6:16 PM
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Paul,
I have no problem with guys entering two kits as long as they intend to fly 2 kits. You said earlier that your region REQUIRES flyers to enter 2 kits. Where i have a problem is when there are 20 kits entered in a region and 7 or 8 DNF. Smells fishy at that point. I understand that it is within the rules but it should not be. I think there should be a rule that a region that flys less than 80% of the kits entered should get 0 qualifiers. That would eliminate this questionable practice! Damn you Nick, you got me tangled up in this mess.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
Last Edited by on Nov 24, 2009 6:19 PM
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fhtfire
2237 posts
Nov 24, 2009
6:19 PM
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Joe,
You can rationalize it anyway you want to but if you are entering kits that you know will not be flown..
Ok...so now we can close the book...No kits were entered with me KNOWING they would not fly...when the money is in...all the guys will fly two kits....this year...30 kits were going to fly...that is why we judged Friday, Sat and Sun...instead of Sat Sun in the past....so....when we sent in are money...it was under the assumption that EVERYONE was going to fly....now if I knew none were going to fly....then that is fine....but a couple pulled out the day before...some a week before....one the day of......so...I DID NOT KNOW that not everyone was going to fly..I assumed a couple would not based on experience and knowing that some fliers were scrambling to get birds...and getting killed by BOP...but anyway....
What you are explaining is ghost kits...kits that are not there and have no intention of flying...that is not what we had.....
The spirit of the rules is this...10 kits ENTERED 1 qualifier....seems pretty clear to me....so with this sentence 10 kits entered 1 qualifier....show me the spirit of the rules....is there a hidden meaning...because if the rules said 10 kits flown 1 qualifier...then I totaly understand..but I can read pretty good...and English is my first language.....
So in the military...they tell you ...that for every 10 soldiers you get one humvee for protection....that means for every 10 soldiers you get one humvee for protection.....what you are saying is the spirit of the rules mean...for every 10 soldiers that enter combat get 1 humvee...well...that is not what the rules say.....you dont have to enter combat...just have your 10 soldiers....but the spirit of the rule meand combat....no way man..the rule is as clear as day...and you only break the rules if you dont follow them....
rock and ROLL
Paul
Shame on me for getting more Qualifiers in my region......and not wasting time....fuel...money...and shooting more exhaust into the environment....and giving more NBRC money....shame on me for following the rules.....
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3870 posts
Nov 24, 2009
6:20 PM
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I am beginning to admire and respect the people in my region more and more. They understand the uniqueness of competition and fair play and when they commit to fly, that is exactly what they do. As long as they can see fairness in what I do, they give me no grief. Two new local clubs have sprang up in the region............we have a good region. They tolerate me and for some that is a hard thing to do.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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fhtfire
2238 posts
Nov 24, 2009
6:28 PM
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Joe,
Nowhere did I say it was Required...I re-read all my posts....and nowhere did I say it was required....I did say the HAVE to have two kits...What I was saying is that they have to have two kits in there stable if they enter two kits...meaning...you cant enter two kits and not have a second kit at all....that is the only area where I could see that you think that I was saying requirement...i was only talking about no GHOST KITS>>>
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
569 posts
Nov 24, 2009
6:42 PM
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Well I obviously misunderstood what you were saying, I thought you said everyone in your region had to have 2 kits to enter.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2169 posts
Nov 24, 2009
8:21 PM
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You've come a long way, Nick. I admire the changes you have made and I respect what you have done in your region.
Cliff
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fhtfire
2239 posts
Nov 24, 2009
8:40 PM
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Nick,
Nice post...Nick..I respected you the first day I met you back in the day...Just wish you would not have moved away...but anyway...that is good you have a good region...and I know you have good folk around that area...my dad is 100% Arky....anyway...Since 9B is your old region...you know the great guys that fly in 9B and that I too respect the hell out of all my fliers....Rock on Nick
rock and ROLL
Paul
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wishiwon2
242 posts
Nov 24, 2009
9:00 PM
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In my opinion, qualifying spots should be awarded for kits flown, regardless of how many were entered. The rule needs changed.
My reasoning is this; Qualifying spots should be awarded for competition. A kit entered and not flown is not competition. Those regions who fly the most kits should be afforded the most qualifiers. Same rationale as went into the MF point system. It is based on competition.
The $ arguement doesnt carry alot of weight with me. If qualifiers were based on kits flown, there would be less qualifiers and therefore less expense to the NBRC to conduct a finals competition.
If someone wants to make a donation to their region, do it. Ive seen it happen, more than once somebody slips the RD a little gas money or treats the judge and his chauffer to dinner.
For those of you who dont want to 'waste' your time watching young birds spin circles in the sky, maybe this aint your cup of tea. In my opinion it is all part of the hobby. At wrestling tournaments, some of the preliminary matches are lopsided and uncompetative, but they happen anyway, but the referres and scorekeepers have to be there too.
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
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Spin City USA
268 posts
Nov 24, 2009
10:11 PM
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Why cant they just double the fee's and lower the kits from 10 for each qualifier to 6 or 7 for each qualifyer?
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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fhtfire
2242 posts
Nov 24, 2009
10:24 PM
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Jon,
If qualifiers were based on kits flown there would be less qualifiers ..therefore less expense...well that is not true...if you have one or 3 qualifiers in the region...the plane still has to fly there....that is the main expense...the Regions pick up the expense of shuttling the judge around...the main expense to the NBRC is the airline flights all over the country...so regardless of how many qualifiers in a region..you still have to get there.
As far as making a donation..you bet...but this day and age money is not thrown around like it used to be...I still have a job...and I myself used to donate my fuel....pay for doughnuts with my money....or what have you...but that does not happen now...because we are on tough times...I myself had my pay cut too..big time....so you cant rely on "somebody" coming through with money.
As far as the "waste of time"...that is what the flier says...not the RD..the flier will call and make the decision to fly or not to fly....and they feel it is a waste of time....I cant twist there arm and tell them to fly...but because one person has set in there mind that they dont want to fly or cant fly..should not punish everyone else.
You have a competition as soon as you have two or more fliers....just because you dont go to the bull pen....does not mean the game has stopped....all the second team is .....is a relief pitcher...the back up..the ace in the hole..
The World Cup has 50% kits must be flown.....well....that is exactly what some are doing here...and most are flying over 50%.....the main thing is this..what is it hurting to not fly the second team...it is hurting nothing.....you change to kits flown and then you will see more DQ's....or less kits entered...and that hurts the NBRC...
So everyone must think that the more qualifiers per region...the better your chances of winning..WRONG....you are still only one flier in your region....if anything it makes the finals more legit...I would rather get 1st flying against 40 qualifiers the getting 1st flying against 15......some act like this is a team or Regional sport....when you get to the finals...I fly for Paul Fullerton...I want to whoop everyone...as should all the other fliers feel...but some are acting like this is a regional comp..that the region wins something if a flier from that region wins....you could have 6 qualifiers in a region and that does not mean you are going to win....it does not increase your odds....if the birds are dialed they will be at the top regardless if you had 5 or 1 qualifier...that is what I dont understand....and if the rules are written the way they are..then by all means..enter more kits....DUH!!!..or lets go back to W.C. rules..50% must fly....
As for the prelim matches....yes they are not as competative..but if a wrestler says he does not want to wrestle for whatever reason..the rest of the team does not lose a chance for the podium...because one wrestler bows out....you just start the next match..kind of like flying pigeons...you just move on and start the next fly.
Anyway....I dont get it...you have to pay a month in advance and cant see the future...and if a flier cant fly...and the NBRC will refund the money back to the fliers.....if they dont fly...then I am for it.....anyway...this horse has been beat to death....the rules are what they are....and I did not make them..I only follow them...so what more can I say...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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wishiwon2
245 posts
Nov 25, 2009
6:48 PM
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Paul,
I get ya man. I understand the rules, and you are following them. You are doing the best for your region, I dont debate that.
I just simply disagree with the rule. I think it ought to be qualifying spots for kits flown. The number of qualifiers for a region should be based on competition.
One inequality I see is this; In your region you said the club pays for the second kit. I am aware of other regions which do similarly. I dont have a problem with a region doing that. However, there are lots of regions which cover more than a single club, mine for example. I realize the club funds come from the membership through dues or fund raising activities, etc, but it does so indirectly. I dont have a club to put my support towards and in return have it serve as the umbrella for me and my region. Not saying its right or wrong, just that it is.
Its not a huge issue to me, I dont lose any sleep because another region does it a different way. I dont see that any regions are violating the rules. It has been discussed a bunch over the past few years. Im just offering my opinion, not trying to be critical.
Nick asked, "Is there anything seen here worth discussing?"
Where are region 8C results?
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Jon
If it were easy, everybody would do it
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2009 6:51 PM
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Scott
2629 posts
Nov 25, 2009
7:31 PM
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It looks to me like some regions are cheating themselfs, myself as RD I am always going to get as many qualifiers as the rules allow , as an exanple if I have 10 flyers with only 1 kit each, you can bet that I'm going to have them paying for 2 kits for 2 qualifiers.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2009 7:48 PM
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warpspeed
115 posts
Nov 25, 2009
7:38 PM
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unbelievable no wonder so many regions scores are low people should work on having better kits and birds instead of better debates and bitching
abel
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macsrollers
228 posts
Nov 25, 2009
8:39 PM
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Region 14 is a small region and we do our best to enter the kits required by the rules and fly as many of them as we can. Entering more kits then flown has been going on forever and flying less kits then entered always happens. The percentages of kits flown vs. entered in big and small regions are about the same. We entered 20 kits and flew 12. We could have flown some more but the judge had to get back home for work the next morning so why would we have to interfere with that by flying some filler kits. We entered 20 birds for the eligibility of 2 qualifiers, as the rules require. We made sure each flier flew the kits they wanted to fly and that had a chance to qualify, and by the time that was done there were no filler kits flown. The rules as they stand allow smaller regions a chance to compete until they grow larger. The rules will never be perfect but as they stand they promote growth and participation, which is what this hobby needs. Some will abuse the rules regardless, but there are more good then bad out there so we should focus on the good, not the bad. Enjoy your next fly! Don M. Mac's Rollers LVRC
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SpinCityRollers
306 posts
Nov 25, 2009
8:45 PM
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Perfectly said and taken
I am one of the guilty ones
Hey Nick It doesnt matter you are crying on deaf ears they already told me just pay and shut up that how it is and NBRC has never return any money for unflown kits everyone loves free money ITS good business
but thank for the info and I didnt fly my second team because I got hit at the end of my first fly things happen and I dont knock anyone who didnt participate
thanks to everyone
I am so tired of people when it comes to competition(they suck. Stealing' cheating, Never Satified)it brings out the ugly in people.there is no fun in this..
the birds and the backyard is where its at.
I will fly in NBRC and any other fly. but the NBRC means nothing to me anymore they dont have to much that I desire any more I believe most of the stuff in the so call magazine is useless it mostly talk about scientific stuff and diseases and feed and stuff that dont even work except at the authors house but they try to stuff it down you throat anyway Some old same old articles. I believe that 80 percent of pigeon raiser dont no what the hell there doing anyway. spending time on here talking about squeakers (that are usually gone by the year end (talk about a spinner a bird that put some work in), there are still stuck on birds and people that died over 60 years ago (talking about pure this and pure that looking into eyes and talking about they see this and that and all kind of different crap now. to me NBRC promote rollers and big breaks not spinners Until Scott Came through and showed them some reality high 200s that reality(no 1600 pts stuff)
I am with the QSDC QSDC QSDC now Quality Speed Depth Competition
you are right Abel we do and should spend all this energy on improving our birds.and stop looking over in the next mans back yard
my best advice
IS fly the best Cull the rest AND
A Fancier will learn all his worth while knowledge from his own birds.
There are no rules. It a hobby try what you want do what you want you pay the bill.
and fly how many Flyer and when you want. ROLLER ANARCHY
And remember there are no pure blood none (they started mixed)
MAdmAX
Remember am right around the corner
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2009 9:20 PM
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birdman
750 posts
Nov 25, 2009
8:53 PM
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Why are you so MAdAtTheWorldmAX ?
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SpinCityRollers
307 posts
Nov 25, 2009
9:03 PM
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Because am as real as it gets since 1986 I ve been in and it took me 20 years to separate the real from the fake and when you defeat that you can see so much more clearly and
Vermont what it is LA to LV
am not mad at ya am only keeping it real
MadMax
LAs vegas Finest
2 time top 10 nation fly finisher
Most guys that talk the most crap usually are covered in crap
and there birds usually follows suite
I dont Care what they Think
yes i do
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2009 9:17 PM
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birdman
751 posts
Nov 25, 2009
9:20 PM
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Hey Max, have some fun with it and keep it real.
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SpinCityRollers
308 posts
Nov 25, 2009
9:21 PM
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luv yah
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3884 posts
Nov 25, 2009
11:07 PM
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Scott has a point. It is a numbers game and I want a champion in my region every year. The more you can put into the finals the better chances you have of having that champion. 25 fliers can give you up to 40 twenty Bird kits and ten 11 Bird kits. The NBRC will allow you 5 qualifiers for the 50 kits.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Nov 25, 2009 11:10 PM
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JBow
130 posts
Nov 26, 2009
10:27 PM
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Scott i agree but when you have ten flyers and 20 kits entered there should be 20 kits flown. I agree on bad weather causeing prolblems but year after year of like you said 10 flyers and 20 kits flown to make 2 qualifiers and only half fly theres is a problem there in my opionion jim bowen
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steve49
345 posts
Nov 27, 2009
7:12 AM
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how many qualifiers if a region flys 14 kits?
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Steve in Blue Point, NY
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Scott
2630 posts
Nov 27, 2009
9:28 AM
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Jim, I'm not worried at all about a full 20 kits being flown, in fact I don't want the judges time wasted with 2nd kits being flown just for giggles.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3893 posts
Nov 27, 2009
10:36 AM
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steve49-Kits bought or kits flown. Under the current laws if 14 kits were bought then you can have only one qualifier. If 20 kits were bought, but only 14 flew you would have 2 qualifiers. Right now, you have one qualifier for every 10 kits bought.
The strange thing occurrs when you have only 9 or less kits bought, but the club allows one qualifier and this I don't understand.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Mongrel Lofts
618 posts
Nov 27, 2009
2:18 PM
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Nick,
I have a question for you. How many times have your favored flyers. Like bill Roy or West fall flown after 3PM in you prelims?
Noy just since you are running things. But say over the past 10 years. I just wonder if your region has practiced the same thing that Cliff is promoting! What do you think has been the practice over the years? KGB
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2173 posts
Nov 28, 2009
8:48 AM
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Kenny,
If your request of Nick is made based on curiosity, then it is well-motivated. But if it is based on an intent to judge the way another region does things then it is inapprpriate. I want to clarify that I am not "promoting" any of the different philosophies for scheudling flyers. Every region is free to design it as they wish. I am doing things the way the majority of the flyers in my regions prefer it: first based on the practicality of geographical location, second based on the flyer's committment to flying every year and his track record. That has worked very well in showing respect for those that make the fly happen in our region and in providing opportunity for newer flyers to gain experience and improve in competition. I don't find fault with regions that do it differently, and request the same respect and courtesy between all regions. I believe that it is up to the flyers in each region to make these decisions, not the NBRC or the World Cup.
Cliff
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