Anonymous
Guest
Jul 10, 2004
6:52 PM
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since monty has passed on who is number one now we had the greats of the past and the greats of today but who are they now now there are so many that are great in the hobby that who would be your first choice the next great.
just wondering since no one thinks about this now as before
thanks steve.
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Jr.
Guest
Jul 11, 2004
1:42 PM
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There isn't a #1 in the hobby. There are many outstanding breeders and flyers everywhere and many outstanding guys that don't compete and you will never hear their names mentioned unless you know them personally. That question will have several hundred different opinions and can't be answered. What makes a person #1 ?
For flying record how about Rick Mee. Look at his record!
For old timers that are still around with quality birds how about Dick Stephens (Edited). Some good blood in those lofts!
For breeders try Joe Houghton, Jerry Higgins, Thomas Hatcher, etc... All these guys can and could produce the top birds we all want in our lofts.
Steve, what is your criteria for #1?
Last Edited by Guest on Aug 02, 2004 8:53 PM
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steve
Guest
Jul 11, 2004
9:33 PM
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my criteria is who is the force to be reconed with and i dont mean when thier on their on i mean all the time
who would you consider an authority on the hobby now
as we know everybody that followed bill pensom listen to his every words and followed his examples as with montys
articles who and im not talking about the authority on color
birds i mean performance and quality birds and as for (Edited) he does not have the quality that he once did because
of crooks who ripped him off more than once that sucks too.
but he does know his birds thats for sure but people would
question his bird now as for the others you have mentioned
they in there own right deserved thier place in history.
i do know that jerry higgins has the potential to kick butt
at any giving time but he could have never compared
to bob scott for he at any giving day at any giving time any giving day could and would have won all competitions
in todays format but you never did hear that when he was
alive and before he became a nobody and their are some who
i may never hear of let me tell about a great rollerman that you may have never heard of his name is salvador gutierrez of southern califoprnia he flew birds for 40
years he lived near pensom when he was a kid in canoga park
he was given some birds directly from pensom he never competed and never when chacing the elusive titles but i sure know he was and authority in that he remembered everything thougth to him he expiremented with different lines birds but he kept his birds pure since the day he got them and made some great blood lines that he gave back to the community and the sport to help young people who wanted
to have the best but as i know no one hear of him because
last year he gave all his birds of 40 years away do to illness just an example of great ones.
40 years in south gate california im talking about a
Last Edited by rollerpigeon on Aug 02, 2004 8:55 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
96 posts
Jul 11, 2004
10:52 PM
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Well my take is that filling a void that Monty resided in would be hard to determine, and obviously more of a personal opinion. But since you are referring to Monty as a past #1, that he was not because of his birds but because of what he could do with his birds. He was a master of flying rollers and probably could have done it with a variety of families. He was successful at getting the most out of a kit of birds and did it better than most could ever dream. I would say that if one were too look at the top 10 lists of both the WC and NBRC Fall Fly, there are a handful of names that reappear, some more than just here and there. Anyone that can repeat cracking the top ten, or even the top five of those two events could be considered a #1 in my book. Just having great rollers doesn't mean someone is a number one in my book. If they can put their birds up against the nation's best and the world's best and repeatedly kick ass, that is saying something!
Brian.
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nicksiders
72 posts
Jul 21, 2004
10:10 PM
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Rick Mee
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
132 posts
Jul 23, 2004
7:05 AM
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Hello All, let's do a non-scientific poll to find out...
First, let's nominate an individual, a person must second it. (You must also be a member of the discussion board so sign up its free and give us your name or it won't count, please)
Second, state 1 or 2 things about that person that makes them a great.
Once I have a sufficient number posted (say 7 to 10 persons), I will put up a poll that all visitors can vote on. And will settle the matter for at least the visitors to this site! LOL
It could turn into a popularity contest and all we find out is who has gotten thier name out there more often than the others!LOL Thanks for participating! FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
119 posts
Jul 23, 2004
11:40 AM
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Okay, I'll start it.
Rick Mee:
1--Kick ass family of pigeons that have proven their worth in others lofts, as well as winning last years world cup.
2--Made the top ten in the WC more than most and nearly won it several times. One of only a few to repeat nearly year after year. Same for NBRC fall fly.
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George Ruiz
Guest
Jul 23, 2004
1:41 PM
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Don Ouellette
1.World Cup Winner
2.Always in contention in any fly he enters.
3.A great trainer and manager of teams.
4.people have aquired birds from his family and were not as succecesful as him, proving that it takes a great deal of knowledge to compete at a high level(WORLD CUP FALL FLY)
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
120 posts
Jul 23, 2004
3:02 PM
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George, I'll second Don O.
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George R
Guest
Jul 23, 2004
3:29 PM
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I guess I gave him the edge becuase he flies in the west coast .
The roller world knows that Cali. is a Roller hotbed and the competion is fierce.
I find it hard to seperate Rick and Don they are two modern time greats!
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Russ
Guest
Jul 23, 2004
3:45 PM
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Both deserve respect but if I have to choose I choose Rick Mee.
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Steve Sissel
Guest
Jul 23, 2004
6:20 PM
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Tony,
I have monitored the flys and the participants for quit some time.
I was at the Louieville Ky yb show and was talking to Monty Neibel and Hiene Bijker.
I told Monty the year he won his 2nd W/C I guess your # 1 in the world now and he replied no Hiene is still the # one breeder, feeder and trainer he helped me win with his methods and knowledge.
Monty said in a jokeing manner , Hiene could make a Modena roll.
I vote for Hiene Bijker.
He has been on top of the game and is a world class breeder and flyer and has stayed with the W/C flys almost every year.
Later
Steve
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nicksiders
73 posts
Jul 23, 2004
8:17 PM
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I will second Rick Mee..................does it all, yet he is required to move all over the world due to his military career. He is a teacher..........just read the articles he writes.
Don is a good choice................has taken the time to email me when lesser breeders would not give me the time of day...........very smart; very wise. Has a solid handle on the history of our hobby.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
123 posts
Jul 25, 2004
9:02 PM
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Since no one has offered up any other names for consideration, I will add Jerry Higgins to the list. He has been in the top ten in WC finals three times, and qualified for the finals nearly every time he has flown. His birds are found in a vast number of competition kits around the world, some of them have even won the WC and NBRC Fall Fly.
Robert Parker would be another consideration. Always a threat as he proved by winning the WC, nearly winning the Fall Fly and winning the NBRC 11-bird fly. His birds also won the NBRC Fall fly this past year and like Jerry's have been in WC and NBRC qualifying kits as well.
Brian.
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Anonymous
Guest
Jul 25, 2004
9:55 PM
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Good political move Brian, but didn't you already recommend Rick Mee for your #1 choice? LOL
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Anonymous
Guest
Jul 26, 2004
8:41 AM
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Rick Mee No#1.
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Anonymous
Guest
Jul 26, 2004
1:44 PM
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Too late Brian! Jerry and Robert already read the message board. Boy are you in trouble with the club!!! OUCH!
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
136 posts
Jul 26, 2004
7:20 PM
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Hey folks, lots of nominations, need someone to second them. Once we have enough, 5-7 names, a poll will be put up. Keep the names coming but only second the ones you feel strongly about, also provide your reasons otherwise they won't count. lol (no and you can't nominate yourself) lol Tony
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Mother lode lofts
48 posts
Jul 26, 2004
8:27 PM
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No disrespect towards Rick Mee but he hasn't flown in about 4 years and the competition is stiffer than it's ever been due to both the nationals and the worldcup growth,I think that as far as fly record in both the nationals and the world cup,Don Oulette would have it hands down,Ricks never flown the Nationals and has no placings there,Don has top placings in both plus a win in the World cup,Dons a flier day in day out year after year,good kit bad kit,hot cold,sunny or storming he puts em up on fly day for good or bad,THE MANS A FLIER !!!!!!!!!!!
As far as (Edited),well he's a nice old guy and has a lot of knowledge of the oldtimers but he's never been a flier,Dick Stephens and Tom Hatcher have never been fliers either and have done more harm as feather merchants burning new guys to the sport than most can imagine,if it wasn't for Stephens adds for the past 20 or so years no one would even know who he was,same as Hatcher,if it wasn't for his books he would be an unknown,thats just my opinion,what do you think Brian M. LOL LOL
Scott
Scott
Last Edited by rollerpigeon on Aug 02, 2004 8:57 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
124 posts
Jul 26, 2004
8:57 PM
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LOL Scott, since when does it matter what I think...lol? You put out some good points, but as always you forgot some people..lol J/K.
Anonymous's (plural) since ya didn't leave yer names..lol. I just added some names since no one else was diving in. Would still like to see some others added, make a race out of it. Oh, and Jerry is a friend, but I have never gotten a bird from him so me throwing my hat in the ring for Rick won't effect the enjoyably arguementitive relation he and I share..lol. Hell I covet being the outcast in the club!..lol.
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Jul 26, 2004 8:57 PM
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Mother lode lofts
49 posts
Jul 26, 2004
9:32 PM
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Yea Brian Parkers a consideration but you really can't count the 11 bird kiddie fly can we LOL,who remembers the winners from that one LOL
Scott
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Mother lode lofts
50 posts
Jul 26, 2004
9:39 PM
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Actually Brian I could give a rats fart what you think LOL,I was referring to Brian Midaugh and hoping to get him to bite on the Stephens/ Hatcher thing,those guys are nothing short of (edited).
Scott
Last Edited by rollerpigeon on Aug 02, 2004 8:58 PM
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
125 posts
Jul 26, 2004
10:16 PM
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Now don't go pickin' on my rat and his gastritus problem!..lol.
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Anonymous
Guest
Jul 26, 2004
10:57 PM
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(Edited) might not be a flyer but take a look at most who are doing very well and you will find his birds in most if not all thouse lofts
Last Edited by rollerpigeon on Aug 02, 2004 8:59 PM
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fhtfire
20 posts
Jul 27, 2004
12:19 AM
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Well, I would like to nominate Scott Campbell. I have talked to many fliers since getting into the rollers. Scott has excellent Stock, is always striving for greatness in his birds, WIll always help out a fellow flier, Judges, flies the World cup and does very well, has a bucket full of knowledge. Scott is the type of person you can call anytime and ask a question about rollers and he will help you solve the problem. I have visited his loft and he is very maticulous in the way he does things. He is a true flier...if his birds have a bad day...he deals with it...does not bitch....and I have seen his birds on a good day. I read about Pensom and other great old timers. Winning a competition was not in there agenda...it is all the other things...knowledge, wanting to help others by giving good birds to newcomers.....always lending an ear to questions...lending a breeder pair to the competition...and truly believes his way is not the only way...This is what I read about the old timers...they loved rollers....helped other fanciers......strived to improve there birds and others birds and it seems they spent more time in the coop then anything else. To me that is Scott Campbell. Like I said...I have visited a lot of lofts and have talked to a lot of roller people..and Scott is the one that was well rounded. He really stood out with me. He also speaks his mind.....and does not hold a grudge when someone else speaks theirs.
Thats it!
Paul Fullerton
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Anonymous
Guest
Jul 27, 2004
6:18 AM
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how many time have Scott been in World Cup top 10? Rick Mee is better choice.
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Mother lode lofts
52 posts
Jul 27, 2004
6:34 AM
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You made me blush Paul LOL,with your vote,plus I might even be able to talk my wife into voting for me but that can go either way,my moms a sure bet to vote my way yea Paul we might just have something LOL.
Scott
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Jul 27, 2004 6:41 AM
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Anonymous
Guest
Jul 27, 2004
6:42 AM
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I thought Stephens wsa a friend of Pensom and have good birds.
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fhtfire
21 posts
Jul 27, 2004
8:52 AM
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I am not saying one person is better then another. Just like the old timers....is there more then one great. Is the world cup the only guage of success. How many competitions did Pensom win. Pensom is great because he was well rounded...he loved his hobby and his birds. You can win the World Cup and be a total asshole..or be so competative that you will not help others get to where you are.....am I right. I am sure there are some backyard fliers our there that do not enter comps but have some damn good birds. Some people do not like the politics of competition. Just because you are in the world cup top 10 does not mean you can't be a great fancier. Charles Barkley and Karl Malone have never one an NBA Championship...but does that mean they are not in the top 50 greatest players of all time. Guess what...they are. You can't have a vote with just one person...right? I think a great is judged in every category. I am very new to this hobby and I am sure Rick Mee is #1 with his track record but you have to have more then one person to have a good vote....Look at the site administrator..Tony...He too has great birds and is always willing to help others in this hobby...he has a pretty good little book out very knowledgable....but oh yeah....he has not been in the top 10 of the world cup.
Thanks,
Paul
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Anonymous
Guest
Jul 27, 2004
9:43 AM
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Paul, Look at the subject, u are going off topic
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fhtfire
22 posts
Jul 27, 2004
10:03 AM
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Sorry..I was rambling on.lol....enough said....lol
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
127 posts
Jul 27, 2004
12:11 PM
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Paul it isn't a popularity contest or humanitarian award for being a great guy with great birds. The question was who would be considered as the current greatest or top dawg now that Monty (once and still considered one of the greatest flyers) is gone. Pensom didn't fly competitively so he wouldn't be considered either. He is more like a founding father if you know what I mean. This is a matter of who has brought down the thunder time and time again against the rest of the best and succeeded. Everyone can say they have a fast car, but until you put them on the track, talk is cheap, unless we are giving out awards for kindness. This is a matter of competitors, not of guys who like rollers. We can do that poll next, bring up some folks who apply to the thoughts you and some others share Paul.
Brian.
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fhtfire
24 posts
Jul 27, 2004
1:53 PM
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Misunderstood the question...I stand corrected....Then Dan and Rick would surely be in the running..if you just go for kicking major aurs. Sorry Scott...you are to nice...call your mom and wife and let them know you don't need the vote...lol! That would be good to have a poll on who is one of the best all around Fliers.
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nicksiders
74 posts
Jul 27, 2004
9:39 PM
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Well, I guess I had better go out and cull my Stephens and Hatcher birds. I thought they were doing good...........what little did I know.
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nicksiders
75 posts
Jul 27, 2004
9:45 PM
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Does anyone know Bob Hord..............in his little section of the world he is a top notch breeder. Used some Vaughn birds to build his family. I think every community, county, state has thier champions with or without competing.
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Mother Lode Lofts
Guest
Jul 27, 2004
10:00 PM
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Nick if they are working for you "thats great" and don't ever let someone such as myself dictate any different,but on the same hand don't ever get stuck on something just because either,I paid three grand for a pair of birds one time,last year I gave them away cause they didn't work,I'm happy that those birds are working out for you.
Scott
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Bill
Guest
Jul 31, 2004
10:12 PM
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Hello Guys, I would vote for (Edited). I have always seen good qualilty birds fly at his house and I don't think I know a roller guy in Northern Calif that (Edited) has not helped with some good birds. I have been given birds from him and they produced the best cock bird I have last year and I am excited to see what happens with them as I have switched pairs this year. The last time I was visiting (Edited) he had some really nice deep rollers, especially a couple of white looking birds that were as good as they get. He is also helpful with his years of knowlege and history of roller friends. Another vote for (Edited)!!!!
Last Edited by rollerpigeon on Aug 02, 2004 9:01 PM
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Anonymous
Guest
Jul 31, 2004
11:01 PM
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Those white looking birds are English birds and he flys because they fly very low and are easy to see with his failing eye sight,the qaulity of these birds are very low on these birds to be honest with you
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 01, 2004
11:34 AM
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I THINK YOU ARE VERY WRONG I HAVE BEEN TO HIS HOUSE AND SEEN THEM FLY THEY FLY HIGH ROLL GOOD AND KIT TIGHT. SO WHEN I HEAR GUYS LIKE YOU TALKING CRAP ABOUT HIM AND HIS BIRDS IT (Edited) ME OFF. YOUR BIRDS WERE MOST LIKLEY GIVEN TO YOU BY (Edited) AND YOU ARE TRYING TO DO TO HIM WHAT THEY TRYED TO DO TO BILL PEMSOM. PS IM 99.99 PERCENT SURE HO POSTED THE LAST RESPONSE. MY VOTE WILL GO TO (Edited). DO TRY TO DRAG A HALL OF FAMERS NAME IT TO THE GROUND BECAUSE OF YOUR JEALOUSY YOU (Edited).
Last Edited by rollerpigeon on Aug 02, 2004 9:03 PM
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 01, 2004
1:08 PM
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Lighten up,old (Edited) been out of the loop for years and no one's dragging him through the dirt,and no most in Northrn Calif. did not get thier start from (Edited) but a few in the past did get a bird here and there from him do to the hunt for various bloodlines floating around at the time and (Edited) like many other dabbled in a lot of different bloodlines ,as for those English birds that he's now flying if you think that they are good well there's not much to say except that you may want to get out more,he fly's them cause he can see them and they allow him to still enjoy some birds even at his age,whats so hard to understand about that.
Last Edited by rollerpigeon on Aug 02, 2004 9:04 PM
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fhtfire
26 posts
Aug 01, 2004
3:59 PM
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Maybe it is just me...but if you are going to get a little mean or disagree with someone...I feel you should post your name. If you are that confident in what you say then show your true self.
Thanks,
Paul
Last Edited by fhtfire on Aug 01, 2004 4:00 PM
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viper
21 posts
Aug 01, 2004
5:17 PM
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what about Jay Starly and Ken Easley.Them seem to show pretty well.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
131 posts
Aug 01, 2004
9:05 PM
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Good point Viper. Jay Starley definitely has game and some birds that prove their quality every year.
Brian.
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Keith
1 post
Aug 02, 2004
8:41 AM
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If I am reading the World Cup report correctly..... Peter Handy should be getting some consideration.
Keith
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
137 posts
Aug 02, 2004
9:38 PM
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Hello All, the Poll has now been started! I took the names that were mentioned favorably a first and second time and included them.
A certain gentleman's name has been edited from several places in this thread and due to thefts over the years from his lofts and not wanting any notoriety, he requested I remove his name from the thread and I am happy to oblige him.
He and I spoke for some time by phone and in an understatment to say the least, I was impressed with his years in Rollers along with his knowledge and the valuable tips he gave me.
After I asked if it would be okay to call again and talk Rollers and Pensom he said, "well it's your dime". So I hope to be in touch some time soon.
Now go vote for your number 1 pick!
Last Edited by rollerpigeon on Aug 02, 2004 9:43 PM
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 04, 2004
7:36 AM
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Hey guys you forgot about George Mason. He's always in the top ten.
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Anonymous
Guest
Aug 04, 2004
7:27 PM
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MotherLode, I want to hear more about those $3,000 pair of birds. What made you think they were worth that much in the first place? Were they from a WC competitors loft or were they from one of the feather merchants you mentioned earlier. I sure hope your wife doesn't read this board! Ha Ha Ha !
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Mother lode lofts
57 posts
Aug 04, 2004
11:24 PM
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Ok you want the story,I'll give it, this pair of birds were on the World Cup auction the year Monty died in the accident when the W/C judge was with him,the hen of this pair flew in his winning kit at the time of his death and the cock came out of one of his oldbird teams,lets just say that the bidding went into the wee hrs of the morning and I may have gotten a little caught up in the moment LOL,it went beyond the birds and more of "oh yea beat this" LOL,at that time that blood was pretty rare down here,I allready had my own family working well and had no intention of replacing,I just wanted these birds to play with on the side and hopefully see what was there plus I ended up with another stock cock and a hen that Monty had bred,the first pair just didnt produce(some came in very very late),the other pair was much better and I probably could have made something but decided to keep my focus on my own birds and threw in the towel on them after about three years,and thats the story.
Scott
PS in no way does this reflect bad on that family of birds,just not the right birds out of that family was all
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Aug 04, 2004 11:28 PM
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George Ruiz
Guest
Aug 23, 2004
5:53 PM
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Well it looks as if Don O. is holding a steady lead over Rick M.
I cant believe that Robert Parker is behind Dick S.and Tom H. .
Robert is a former World Cup winner and always in the running in any fly he enters.
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Mother lode lofts
97 posts
Aug 23, 2004
6:11 PM
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Yea that seems odd George since Stephens doesn't even fly his birds and hasn't for quite sometime as I understand and Tom wasn't a flier either (all second hand) Robert in reality should be right up the with Rick and Don O
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