Fireball
3 posts
Dec 30, 2004
5:09 PM
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Greetings..and a great New Year to you all. Several of us are getting our heads together to work with the old Fireball strain of rollers. I had them in the 50's and they were a great spinning bird. I have been working on my family now for about 5 years with some very good results and have made contact with others on both sides of the country that have a few pairs here and there. Please contact me if you raise any and we may get some vitality into the old family. My family goes back to the 60's with George Patterson N.C. and a gentlemen named Missimore living outside of Charlotte. My birds are primarly red spangles with some yellows showing up. Slow flying small to medium body and somewhat long cast. They are not fast matureing birds but after 9 months or so do very well. If you have any..please contact me. Thanks
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Leo
32 posts
Jan 01, 2005
11:33 AM
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Hi Fireball, I was a member of FRC, I wrote newsletters monthly for a while. I knew Jim and Doc Nordland. Ihave a couple of FRC bands still today. Iam probably about your age, I got to thinking it would be nice to see the old FRC rise up again Ive lost contact with any Fireball breeders. I am going to make a few ph. calls to a couple old timers that might know of any Fireball breeders, Ill keep you posted on this site. Leo
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Fireball
4 posts
Jan 01, 2005
8:19 PM
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Thank you Leo. Any help is greatly appreciated. I am a 1943 model and manage to kick about a bit and even raise a bit of dust upon occasions..ha I enjoy my birds as most of us do. The only thing that comes close to that in the bird areana is getting someone new started in them. This year I believe I have 4 or 5 new folks flying. Great stuff. I collect old kit boxes from guys that have quite for various reasons and make the boxes available to new flyers, along with a starter kit of young birds. Waiting to hear from you...thanks again.
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Coach P
1 post
Jan 03, 2005
7:51 AM
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I would be interested, I had some fireballs in the early eighties, I obtained in Fla. I live in Ky. and I have just been back into the sport / hobby a year now getting ready to start my second breeding season, would love to have some….
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Steve S.
29 posts
Jan 03, 2005
3:10 PM
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Hello Fellas,
E-mail this guy at bandhart@peoplepc.com.
His name is Bill.
He has a strain of the old Graham fireballs.
Later
Steve
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Fireball
6 posts
Jan 03, 2005
5:56 PM
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Thank you Steve..I have sent a message to Bill..hope to hear from him.
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Alan Bliven
53 posts
Jan 03, 2005
7:14 PM
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I don't this fellow but Toy Box Lofts on eggbid.com is selling some. One pair is at http://eggbid.com/listings/details/index.cfm?itemnum=1104881751 His email is fasteddie@seidata.com
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Alan
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Fireball
7 posts
Jan 04, 2005
8:50 AM
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Steve..I checked on Bill and his E-mail is no good..Alan, I know Greg of Toybox loft..I am told he has good birds of this family..I hope to get a couple this spring. Thanks to you guys for your help.
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Mother lode lofts
336 posts
Jan 04, 2005
3:30 PM
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Fireball try this for Bill bandchart@peoplepc.com , He's expecting to hear from you.
Scott
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FASTEDDIE
1 post
Jan 05, 2005
10:01 AM
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Hello Gentleman, I am Greg from TOYBOX LOFT, I have had this family of Fireballs for over 25 years. I overspoke myself on Eggbid, the gentleman I got my birds from didn't get his pigeons directly from J.E. Graham, but out of Pennsylvania, off the imports, directly from Graham. I am looking for an Old Line Fireball to bring into my family as they are quite inbred. I am still producing some super spinners, but I am losing that Hybrid Vigor. The last pigeon I brought into my family was in 1986-87, from a gentleman in Texas. If anyone has what I might be looking for, please e-mail me at fasteddie@seidata.com. Thanks.
Last Edited by FASTEDDIE on Jan 12, 2005 8:13 PM
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Fireball
9 posts
Jan 06, 2005
9:51 PM
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Mother lode..thanks very much for the corrected E-mail to Bill. I made contact and he responded in a very positive manner..again, thank you. We are complying a list of breeders of Fireball rollers.
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Coach P
5 posts
Jan 07, 2005
6:08 AM
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if any are around / close to Kentucky please let me know...
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Willy Bill
1 post
Jan 08, 2005
4:41 PM
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Now I now where all the interest on these old birds of mine came from . Bill Hart
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Fireball
11 posts
Jan 08, 2005
5:45 PM
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Willy Bill..sorry to stir up all the dust at your place from way up north here. Awsome thing this internet animal. While we are at it...I am looking for a book written by Graham about his Fireball Rollers. Anyone know of one..I would like to get a professional to copy it. You folks have done such a great job on the last request, help with this one. :-)
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FASTEDDIE
2 posts
Jan 08, 2005
7:58 PM
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Hey Fireball, that book written by GRAHAM is called ACROBATS OF THE AIR. I did have one but can't find it, I have been looking over the internet book stores trying to find another.
Last Edited by FASTEDDIE on Jan 12, 2005 8:14 PM
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Willy Bill
2 posts
Jan 09, 2005
1:53 AM
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Hey fireball thats way ok I was under the impresion that I had very infearure birds so will do some rethinking. Think I like the idia of haveing amarican rollers anyway As you can tell my meds are kicking in so better sign off Bill
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Leo
34 posts
Jan 10, 2005
8:32 AM
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Coach, iam 11 miles straight up 129 out of Vevay we need to make contact. The Fireball book is called ACROBATS OF THE AIR, last were printed about 1980 I cant find mine either, HELP.........LEO
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Leo
35 posts
Jan 12, 2005
8:39 AM
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HEY FIREBALL, We are having some success, give us some contact information....; ph. number...e..mail things are starting to look good . LEO
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J_Star
139 posts
Jan 12, 2005
8:53 AM
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In regard to the books, try Foy's Pigeon Supply. They carry it.
Jay
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Leo
36 posts
Jan 12, 2005
10:30 AM
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J, I didnt see ACROBATS OF THE AIR, on Foys list of books....HELP..Thanks, LEO.
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BULLFROG
12 posts
Jan 12, 2005
11:45 AM
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i cant tell you how happy i am to see you guys putting the fireballs back together when i was a kid i had that blood and it has stuck for a long time. i have some birds here that are blood unknown but hey roll like the old firballs!! i am going to play with them a bit and see what they make. i have put a few calls into the guys i gave my old birds to to see if they have any left. if they do i will let you know. chris
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Leo
37 posts
Jan 12, 2005
12:00 PM
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Chris, I am really glad to see more guys trying to revive this old strain, Weneed to find as many PURE Fireballs as possible ...Who knows...Mabe the old ..FRC..will...RISE AGAIN...LEO
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J_Star
140 posts
Jan 12, 2005
12:22 PM
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In regard to the book, for the time being try you local library and search under the auther name or the title. It will tell you what branch carry the book. then you will place a recall on it, and usually will get to you in couple of days. If there is a community college in your area, try their library. You will surprised of what you will find.
Jay
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BULLFROG
13 posts
Jan 12, 2005
3:25 PM
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the birds i gave to my friends when i went into the service were pure to the best of my knowledge. a buddy has called me back and says he has 25 of the old blood birds at his place. he swears he has kept them pure and never crossed anything into them. he is shipping them to me and when i get them i will let you know what is here. chris
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FASTEDDIE
3 posts
Jan 12, 2005
8:10 PM
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Your right LEO, Graham's Book was called ACROBAT'S OF THE AIR, don't know where I came up with SKY. I am still looking for an Older Pure Fireball cock or hen to breed back into my existing family. Will buy or trade for the right Roller.
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Siddiqir
145 posts
Jan 13, 2005
12:19 PM
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Rob Smith down in NY has fireball rollers. Many of you have probably seen his website already. http://www.allwoodwork.com/membersarea/RobSmith/robspigeons.htm
He can get in loop as an additional point of contact and information
Thanks, -Rauf
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Buck
1 post
Jan 13, 2005
5:27 PM
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Fireball Rollers
Could some of you guys with this strain of birds, describe their performance ? Are they more known for their deep-safe performance, or are they competition birds ?
What would you say is the the primary thing that stands out in this family ? I am very interested in learning more about them ! Thanks !
Buck
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BULLFROG
14 posts
Jan 13, 2005
9:30 PM
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wheni had the fireballs i was getting a high percentage of 50 to 70 ft rollers and i had very few roll downs. in very few i mean 1 out of 25. they tell me that in compition they wouldnt hold up which is to bad. i loved ther breed and they were the best backyard pleasure birds i have ever owned and i have been in pigeon for many years. in on season i could build 3 + kits of 50 ft + birds very good consistancy in breeding. that is my experiance in the fireballs and it is what drew me back to the rollers. i would like to know what others are getting from their birds and if the old F.B.C. is started back up will we have flys where the deep birds are welcome? chris
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Mother lode lofts
358 posts
Jan 13, 2005
10:00 PM
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Bullfrog why would you think that deep birds are not welcome in competition ? In fact they are awarded for depth !! The only catch is that they must be of scrorable qaulity and have the heart to kit.
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J_Star
142 posts
Jan 14, 2005
4:31 AM
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Question... If the Fireball breed was so good, then why it is not very widly known and just being scattered here and there? If they do 50' to 70', I would think everybody would want to cross them to their family to get some deep spinners, woudn't you think?
Jay
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Siddiqir
147 posts
Jan 14, 2005
8:50 AM
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Jay, I think the deeper the bird is it would would have hard time follow around the kit. They may work really well individually unless there is really good kit where birds break together and roll 70+ and kit as soon as they are out of roll.
For example: In a kit of 20 birds 3 rolls deep like 70+ and rest did not then those 3 will be out of kit for reasonable amount of time...For competition frequency and kitting is very important...so short & frequent birds would be first candidate for competition flying...that is just my thoughts
Last Edited by Siddiqir on Jan 14, 2005 9:55 AM
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BULLFROG
15 posts
Jan 14, 2005
10:37 AM
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my comment on deep birds and compitition was based only on what i have heard and read about the perfect roller being a 20 to 30 ft bird. please keep in mind that i have never been in a compititon and am just now training my first kit for cmpitition. i have watched several flyers kits and they have all told me that the ideal bird is one that rolls 20 to 30 ft and kits back fast. even on the home page to this site it talks about the roller being around 20 ft. i have 11 birds that are 60ft + and have been discouraged from flying them. i was told that they were not any good for compitition because they were to deep!! i love these birds and will keep them for my personal enjoyment. they remind me of the fireballs i had years ago. i cant seem to find any info on the 11 bird kit flys. i would love to enter this kit and see how they score a good deep kit of birds. have i been mislead or is the kitting issue scaring people off of the deep birds. chris
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Mother lode lofts
359 posts
Jan 14, 2005
1:48 PM
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Bullfrog we all love deep birds, but once they start hitting "so" deep generally it is more of a control issue and generally qaulity suffers as they tend to fight the roll and on top of it lack of stability will generally create kitting problems as they avoid the kit to try avoid rolling, the kit excites "roll" which is why the kit breaks, not kitters are such because they try to avoid this. As for the 11 bird kit. Yes they must kit and the roll must be of scoreable qaulity as far as no wingswitching, clean and straight with good velosity. Depth is "great" as long as evertyhing else is right and trying to get depth with everything else being "right" is the challange. Flawed depth is nothing and means nothing.
Scott
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Steve S.
33 posts
Jan 14, 2005
1:50 PM
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Chris,
Join the NBRC.
The 11 bird fly just finished with the results and the rules and etc.
They are on the site.
www.nbrconline.com
Steve
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Leo
39 posts
Jan 14, 2005
2:12 PM
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The Fireball roller is a different type of bird, I dont think it fit the rules that are in place now. The Fireball is a little longer cast in general,so flight patterns would different if mixed in Pensom kits. To cross them for more depth ????where are all the Deep Pensoms you guys brag about??? TO cross them would be a whole new bird to work with. I have seen young fireballs "TAIL RIDE" 200 ft a sight to behold, when they matured 35 to 60 ft. I hope enough fireballs are found to revive them, i know without the computer they would go extinct Leo
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Mount Airy Lofts
15 posts
Jan 14, 2005
2:26 PM
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Hi Siddigir,
You mentioned:
They may work really well individually unless there is really good kit where birds break together and roll 70+ and kit as soon as they are out of roll.
I think I heard that Jay Starely of Utah flew a kit of 60 footers not too long ago.
That would be a site to see... for any family.... Fireball or Starely.
Thor
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Mother lode lofts
360 posts
Jan 14, 2005
3:29 PM
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200 ft tailrides Holy Cow, Can't really say that it would excite me much though. Once they mature do they still ride at all coming out of the roll ? I agree with you ,why would anyone want to cross ?
Last Edited by Mother lode lofts on Jan 14, 2005 3:31 PM
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Leo
40 posts
Jan 14, 2005
4:29 PM
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The, mature birds never did tail ride any more, these birds left an impression that they really enjoyed flying, nearly all would tail ride as youngsters 50 80 ft every one who ever owned them will always say...OH YEA I HAD FIREBALLS WHEN I WAS A KID...the birds left a good impression, If you guys can find them ROUND EM UP>>>LEO
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BULLFROG
16 posts
Jan 14, 2005
5:37 PM
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i have sent my application in to the NBRC. i am just waiting to hear back. you guys are talking about terms im not familiar with so i looked them up and the wing switching i am not sure how to watch for that is it very obvious?? the pics i saw were not very transferable to a flying bird for me. could you tell me some signs to look for? i have only looked to see trhat it was tight and deep. i never knew there were diffrent types of rolls other than plate dishrag and the glide or tailride. guess thats why i am a rookie!!! chris
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RodB
22 posts
Jan 14, 2005
5:45 PM
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Funny thing when I was a kid everything was larger than life , much of why the old timers in any sport will say that the champs from thier era would beat the modern champs ,I dont hold this thought, feeling that in any sport the athletes of today are better in everyway from yesteryear , better bred and better prepared and the history books bare proof in the results , the question this thread prods in me is why this strain is not at the forefront or heaverly used in the breeding of winning competition familys .
Rod
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Leo
41 posts
Jan 15, 2005
9:23 AM
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AS you can see Fireballs may be nearly a thing of the past. Although, popular ,they never reached the statis of Pensoms. THERE seemed to be an unspoken split between the two "camps'. There is a Calif gentelman "WELL KNOWN" still in Pensoms, THAT DREW FIRST BLOOD...in the late 60s he attacked the Fireballs he made many 'rancid remarks' calling JIM GRAHAM terrible things,his birds were scrubs,ETC FOR NO REASON? JIM was devistated, really hurt by these attacks. Jim retired in FLA, He was out of pigeons, all the old timers faded away the FRC folded ...The remarks made by this gentelman did not cause the demise of the fireball by no means, then came Compition in its infantsy..it grew quickly to what it is today...NOW you know why you dont see Fireballs in your kit ....Leo
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Mother lode lofts
362 posts
Jan 15, 2005
11:22 AM
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You kind of lost me here Leo. What is "your" opinion why you don't see them in the kits today ?
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Steve S.
34 posts
Jan 15, 2005
11:58 AM
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Hi Leo,
Back when Rev Graham started the strain. The first we saw in southern Ohio it was understood they were Pensoms but just mixed with Smith and Evans strains of the Pensoms.
I believe it was about 1962 or 1963 Graham himself attended a show here In Portsmouth Ohio and was talking to Bob Evans and was explaining the makeup of the birds he was working on.
There are a few still around here up around Ironton Ohio.
If they were bred from the depth individual performance and shortened up and worked with to make kit performance a must,, I see no reason they could not fly in todays competetion flys.
I even think they would get high multipliers in depth if they were bred for the 25-30 foot range.
The ones I saw perform were not to bad in the area of quality so they could hold their own in that area of those multipliers also.
I wouldn't put to much thought into the guy who spoke ill of Mr. Graham for he probably never accomplished near what Graham did.
Later
Steve
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Leo
43 posts
Jan 15, 2005
2:52 PM
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HI MUSTANG, WE need more information, do you have any ph nos address or names to work with?????? thanks .......LEO
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Leo
44 posts
Jan 15, 2005
3:12 PM
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HI MOTHER LODE, Sorry if it seems confusing, The Fireball era was about over,when Kit compition was beginning 90% were Pensom birds, what was left of Fireball breeders obviously were not interested in kit flying....So now they are about all gone........LEO
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Fireball
12 posts
Jan 15, 2005
6:18 PM
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Yesssss..Leo...however we are starting to come out of the woodwork..ha.. Gentlemen, I do certainly appreciate your response to my Dec. 30 inquiry. I have made many contacts about our 'faded out' strain of the best backyard hobby. I still am searching for the book, however will get to the local library to see, and request a copy..(they can get a copy). Thank you for that bit of info. I believe with just a bit of effort we can bring this strain out of the dust..they will never have the impression on the sport that W. Pensom had, but they are still part of the whole. My red spangle family is a real eye catcher at fancy pigeon shows. I have a friend building me a good mobile kit loft that I will fill with them and hope to do some mobile shows in various locations. At present we do homeschoolers, and public school seminars on request. Great stuff this hobby of ours. On a sadder note, I was informed that Mr. George Patterson passed away on 27 December 2004. He was my source for my present family of Fireballs. He was---81 years----in the hobby. I will write an article for the NBRC about him as I am sure others will. Charlotte N.C. roller club is also working on a yearly fly in his name to my understanding. Well, I am under 7 inches of snow and more coming down..bless you that are south of me about 1500 miles (Calif.) and your warm but wet weather. Again..thanks to all..
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FASTEDDIE
4 posts
Jan 15, 2005
7:24 PM
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Hey Mustang, e-mail me or give me a call.
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BULLFROG
20 posts
Jan 15, 2005
7:38 PM
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as i have told fast eddie when i get my birds back i plan on giveing them to to leo and fast eddie and fireball to keep the breed alive and vibrant. all i ask is that when i get better i would be allowed to get a couple of the young. you guys keep in contact with me and i will do the same i will put up a post when i get them. thanks chris
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Leo
45 posts
Jan 16, 2005
8:17 AM
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Chris, Fasteddie is quite a pigeon guy, he is an ace with his racing homers, he lives about 30 mi from me, HE is doing a great job, reviving the Fireballs, Im not a very good looking cheerleader, but i am shure Cheering...LEO
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Leo
46 posts
Jan 16, 2005
8:56 AM
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Hi Steve, I think somebody got their 'wires crossed' on the Graham birds, Jim began his family of birds in 1916, He joined forces with Mr McAree before it was over, they had the Finest Stud of Rollers the world has ever known. The birds were bred true in 1932 came the red brooch cock, FIREBALL, as Jim named him. The only bird Jim ever wanted of Pensoms was 521# on front of Pensoms book the red mottle cock. As far as kitting, or mixing them it may work as you describe ,It would be fun trying, AS far as the guy in Calif,he is now a "follower" I guess what goes around.. comes around. ...LEO
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