Missouri-Flyer
914 posts
Nov 11, 2007
6:01 PM
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Hey Paul,
That why the military imports most "90%" from overseas!..My current working dog is an imported "2007" GSD from Germany.
Last Edited by on Nov 16, 2007 9:36 AM
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gotspin7
407 posts
Nov 11, 2007
6:37 PM
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Paul, thanks for sharing! I was in the dog pulling comps in the 90's with some of my pitts!
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spinningdemon
82 posts
Dec 15, 2008
4:27 PM
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I liked the question by slobernocker,
If the city said no more birds would you still keep birds just not fly them.
One answear was "I would probably move".
Well my friends that is exactly what I did. When the city said no more pigeons I put the house up for sale and moved further out in the country.
Its funny how South Jordan City has a cute country theme logo and in there city profile it says come enjoy the country. It should also say "Just dont bring your pigeons, chickens, horse, goat or any other country animal".
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David Curneal
Performance breeds since 1973
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brudahpete
336 posts
Dec 15, 2008
6:20 PM
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I will fall out of my chair, dead if Snowflake ever institutes such an ordinace!
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RodSD
108 posts
Dec 15, 2008
7:16 PM
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Here is my simple idea. If you fly your birds you will know which is your best because you can see it (tested). If you don't fly, them maybe you can only get good ones or culls. Either way you are playing a random game. If you just fly you wont be guessing anymore.
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2140 posts
Dec 15, 2008
8:09 PM
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If the city said no more birds would you still keep birds just not fly them..
I live in an apartment building in the South Bronx when I was a kid I made a coop and the superintendent wanted it off the roof my pops would whip me to get down from that roof and didn't want me with birds ..did I let that stop me! hell no I waited till I got older got my own place and started again ..still the same result not with my dad to tell me what to do, but the superintendent did, so I made a window coop ..people complain I had to take that out.. I refuse to keep birds with out flying them they have wings they have to fly I use to say, and setting them free and watching them return gave me joy..so I kept moving with that in mind ..have to get my own place where no one can tell me what to do. sure enough I did... now I'm free and so are my birds .these are performing birds and that is just what they need to do....perform..so to answer your question no I wouldn't keep them if I couldn't fly them..and back them I'm talking about birds that just flew high and for hours and kitted ..now I have birds that not only fly but perform ....show time ..in the air...like the hankie in my pocket is for blowing not for showing..
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Ralph
Last Edited by on Dec 16, 2008 7:31 PM
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spinningdemon
85 posts
Dec 16, 2008
6:21 AM
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Ralph, I liked your story! I got my but whiped a few times for the love of pigeons as well.
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David Curneal
Performance breeds since 1973
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fhtfire
1721 posts
Dec 16, 2008
9:26 AM
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Oh...since my last post on this thread a long time ago..after more research in my City....it is not 6 pigeons it is 6 fowl....so now I am not worried....a pigeon is not fowl....if the city ever took me to talk on the foul...I know a couple of avian researchers from UC Davis that would be more then happy to let the city counsel know that a pigeon is not fowl...luckily for me...my neighbors all love my pigeons....
One neighbor was not to keen on the birds until I invited her grand kids over to hold baby pigeons and then feel an egg that was just hatching....and feeling the pecking in the egg....
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Pumpkin Man
38 posts
Dec 16, 2008
2:57 PM
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For comparison
I look at it like this. There are a lot of bulls that have had semen collected because of their outstanding pedigree. Unless that semen was used to inseminate cows and the progeny from those bulls were performance tested no one would know the bulls true value as a breeder. Purebred cattle breeders ARE MANDATED by their breed Associatons to performance test progeny in order to receive a pedigree. Birth weight, weaning weight, yearling weight, etc are required in many cases. The data is collected and averaged to come up with an EPD value. Wouldn't it be great if we had a tool like EPD's to predict performance in rollers. Performance testing is the answer to generating (Expected Progeny Differences) or EPD's. In the case of rollers the EPD's would be for categories like kitting, rolling, % of roll downs etc. Not birth weight, weaning weight, etc. as in cattle. Then you could lease a certain cock bird with favorable EPD's with the hope their is a stronger likelihood that the progeny would perform. Without flying, there is no progeny testing, and lets face it even the best breeders in the country produce some culls, but probably less than the average breeder.
Just something to think about.
Billy Holleran
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Spin City USA
151 posts
Dec 16, 2008
4:21 PM
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Say Pumpkin Man, That is a real good example you gave about the bull semen. I worked in the dairy business and they have a real good system set up. I use one for my hens that they use for their cows. They use an index number for production that is the avg. for all the cows in the herd,any cow whose production is below the avg. is pulling the herd avg. down and is culled. She may still be good,has value and may be able to help someone else who has a lower index #. You can be as hard or soft as you feel is necessary, but the harder you are the quicker you will advance.
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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Pumpkin Man
39 posts
Dec 17, 2008
5:55 AM
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Spin City,
I know the dairy industry has a long history of performance testing. The most elaborate performance recording system I ever saw was by a commercial rabbit producer. He measured, litter size, birth weight, food intake, mothering ability by how much wool the doe pulled to build her nest, docility, and also genetic defects like buck teeth. Each pen had a card and daily observations were recorded. He did this to clean up his genetics which you can do pretty fast with rabbits given the amount of young you produce quickly. I would be curious to know more about the system you use to evaluate your hens.
-Billy
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Windjammer Loft
609 posts
Dec 20, 2008
8:48 AM
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After reading every post added to this thread, their seems to be many opinions on why birds should be flown.... My thinking on this is, just because you have so-called champion spinners or chamiopn what evers... It doesn't always mean that the off spring will be as good or better. It's been proven over and over again that EVERY off spring is NOT of chapiom calibur... This goes for what ever you want to compare it to..dogs, horses, cows you name it. Otherwise the skies would be filled with nothing but champions... Just my take.....
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Fly High and Roll On
Paul
Last Edited by on Dec 21, 2008 9:20 AM
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Spin City USA
157 posts
Dec 20, 2008
11:13 AM
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Pumpkin Man, I keep it pretty simple, I like to fly 24 in my #1 kit. If 6 of the birds in that kit are out of one hen she is responsible for 25% of the kit. That also goes for the cocks and pairs. Any ones that are responsible for 25-30% are the ones I want to concentrate my efforts with. If one individual is outstanding and its parents dont produce the numbers it still gets a chanch,it just doesnt have a lot of siblings, and its parents will do a lot of fostering. They will still produce a few each year if they dont cycle with the pairs I want to concentrate on.
I have had pairs that are not good parents and I dont like that, if the pair they can produce spinners I will split them up and find out where the problem is and eliminate it. Some times both are just lazy and the mate change takes care of it, though it is not something I want to perpetuate so I will note it.
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They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
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