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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Birmingham roller = Performance?
Birmingham roller = Performance?
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Ballrollers
248 posts
Jan 18, 2006
8:32 AM
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KGB, Yes, you are correct. In the beginning of this family, in the distant past, someone made a single remote outcross of a non-rolling breed of pigeon to the BR to get a color modifier. But today, after generations of best to best Birmingham Roller breeding, the descendants of those crosses can and do spin to roller standards as well as any standard color and have earned the title of Birmingham Roller based on that performance. These Birmingham Rollers have been very successfully flown in many different lofts for many years and have won their share of national and international flys. YITS Cliff
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Ballrollers
250 posts
Jan 18, 2006
8:50 AM
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Paul, I didn't know you were a color breeder too!! LOL! I might have to pinch any Andy or two from you for this match! LOL! I am sorry that I jumped you last night, Bro. I apologize. I was outta line with that post to you. I see your point about some of the birds advertised. I don't pay much attention to those sites, so this was news to me. I don't support that crap in any way. If that is the kind of behavior and those are the kind of guys that KGB and Scott are targeting, then, in reality, that leaves most of us, here, (like Jay Y., Joe Bob, you, Gregg, David, Eric, Slobberknocker, myself and the many concerned lurkers) who breed from our family of rollers, out of this discussion because it does not apply to us in any way. YITS Cliff
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Ballrollers
251 posts
Jan 18, 2006
8:54 AM
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scotty, (Not Campbell) You said, "I'd like to see a colored roller perform like a Birminham Roller". There are dozens of lofts all around the country that will be happy to broaden your experience in the hobby of these rollers. You can stop by Carolina, anytime, and we'll show you plenty! I mean that sincerely. YITS Cliff
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Ballrollers
252 posts
Jan 18, 2006
9:05 AM
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Kevin N, You made an incorrect assumption that rollers with color modifiers are "only in a few lofts". These families of rollers tht contain rare factors are being flown by many, many men in the backyard flyer category, which represents 80% of the hobby, remember, and throughout the country. In several regions of the country, including my own, they also dominate the lofts of the competitive flyers. In fact, I can tell you of very few, if any, lofts in my region of a competitive flyer with strictly "purebreds". I have no knowledge of the numbers of men who fly Birmingam Rollers whose families contain rare colors in your area on the left coast, but I know of a few. When we speak in absolutes, we are usually referring to our own limited experiences and they may or may not be limited in scope. If you are saying that there are few rare color Birmingham Rollers in California, I will take your word for it. YITS Cliff
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Ballrollers
253 posts
Jan 18, 2006
9:26 AM
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Kevin N., Right again! The family of birds that I chose to fly and compete with are distantly related to rollers that were crossed on a non-rolling pigeon to get a certain color modifier, not to make it perform better. BUT....I will bet that the same thing went on somewhere in the misty beginnings of the birds that went into the hybrid crosses that eventually were raised in Birminham, England. Does that discredit the entire breed of performing rollers we have cultivated today?
Those hybrid crosses raised in England and the hybrid crosses raised in the USA show the same remarkable performance traits and have come to bear the same title, to perform to standard, and to become the focus of our attention....as the Birminham Roller.
NO fly-sponsoring organization requires anything other than a performance standard, as Mr. Oulette so graciously shared with us. No one requires a pedigree confirmation, or that the birds be of this color or that one. We have agreement in the hobby that they perform as well as any, and if they earn the title of Birmingham Roller based on that performance, then I am plesed as punch.
Thanks for your opinions, but I feel very strongly that my opinon is just as valid as you feel yours is. I am not saying yours is wrong or bad, I am just saying that I stand behind my knowledge and understanding of their history and how they came into existence.I am saying that, basically, we ought to simply respect each other's committment to raise and fly these "figgin'" wonderful little birds!
YITS Cliff
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merced guy
43 posts
Jan 18, 2006
3:16 PM
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Brian, great post for everyone not just Cliff. Tony, good advise, Nick, I like your comments on all subjects on roller. Scotty, thats right.
in the sport thong
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Ballrollers
254 posts
Jan 18, 2006
5:00 PM
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Scott,
I am not going to accept only YOUR conditions for the fly rules of the match; conditions that were added after the wager was made and accepted. Why are you so unwilling to include all "mongrel blood"? Is it the purse money? If that's what it is, then let's throw it out and fly 'em for braggin' rights.
Here are MY conditions for the fly:
1. I will concede to your requirement that all my birds have to be certain colors.
2. You may fly a kit of your family of pedigree birds of any color, as long as none of them is a rare color. (LOL!)
3. 11-bird kits. In your original wager, no kit size was qualified. I can field an 11-bird kit that meets your requirements for color, immediately. I, like most men here, believe quality, speed and depth can be judged more accurately in the 11-bird.
4. NBRC 11-bird fly rules.
5. Half the purse now and save half for a 20-bird fly-off spring of '07; or scrap the purse and fly for braggin' rights. I don't care.
6. I'm ok with a single judge. We each select three from our region and the opposing flyer picks the judge for each fly. (You give me three choices to pick one from to judge your fly, and I'll give you three to pick one from for my fly.) I can also live with a two or three judge panel, as someone has suggested.
Now YOU are wasting MY time, Scott. I told you from the beginning that this would be a fair fly or it wouldn't be flown. You have insisted on rules that stack the deck completely in your favor, while I have offered a variety of options to level the playing field, somewhat. If you have to have everything your way completely, then you'll have to find somebody else to play your fool. Take it or leave it.
YITS
Cliff
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Jan 18, 2006 5:01 PM
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knaylor
52 posts
Jan 18, 2006
5:42 PM
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Tony, you are right to a point. Alot of the disscussion on this topic has been to get the guys to call them what they are.
Cliff, there are not alot of guys that play with color out here. Any you are right when you say that most who do do not compete. I wonder why?? You also say that alot of guys out your way have rare colored birds. I wonder if that is why the 11 bird fly is so popular there??? In our region we have never flown the 11 bird fly. Also you admit that your family of birds are a cross?(distant) Thanks, Kevin
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Phantom1
111 posts
Jan 18, 2006
6:03 PM
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Hey Kevin,
Where are you out of? Just curious.
Thanks,
Eric
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motherlodelofts
572 posts
Jan 18, 2006
6:28 PM
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Like I said Cliff there is a reason why you will never see a kit of "rare" color birds do worth a shit.
And no I won't dummy it down for you by not flying by world cup rules ,and 11 birds don't constitute a team or a kit.
The only ones that are hot on a 11 bird fly are one's that can't fly a 20 bird kit or can't field 20 decent birds, someone is blowing smoke up you ass if they give you any other reasons.
So explain to me how the playing field isn't even, you have countless lofts at your disposal to pull from, don't give this that you don't know anyone that doesn't color breed or that you do some yourself, are you telling me that the breed was mongralized for color and yet no one can put together a team of these birds even though you have countless lofts to pull from ?
It's real simple Cliff "fly a kit of "rare" color birds by the rules of the most repected fly in the world" (how is that stacking it in my favor ? ) Dave says that he has twenty good rare color birds Cliff and that gives you over 30 total, there you go.
Scott
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jan 18, 2006 10:00 PM
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Mount Airy Lofts
81 posts
Jan 18, 2006
6:33 PM
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Tony,
I think they are more then just birds that can summersault. By all means, any bird can be bred to perform if the right breeder went to work on it.
With all the birds that I have seen, hardly if any bird of RARE color holds itself like a well bred Birmingham Roller. I'm not knocking Colorful Rollers. Just that to my knowledge, I have yet come across one on the ground that beams, KICK BUTT! These birds stand out from a mile away on the ground and in the air.
You are right, I don't care what birds people raise. There is a fellow here who I have looked highly upon as being a first class performance Flier. He has been flying his birds for ages in the competitions (over 20 years in the competition scene). Guess what tho, he raises birds of Color - Almonds and Yellows (along with the normal color). He has also judge many kits around the US as a World Cup judge. Altho he had quality Birmingham Rollers in the beginning, he voted to add some fancy paint job not too long ago - about 10 years now. His birds are good but not the best they can be because of this...
In all honesty, if any one is simply raising what they like... so be it. If these are the best performers in your are, you are as good of a shape as anyone else who has Rollers.
I still believe Color Rollers are second best compared to the pure breds but then again it's just my opinion. A opinion I formed from what I have experience thrus far. The key is, experience in any case. If you experience the best their is in the color birds out there, then that would of course lead you to take up a family that consist of RARE colored Rollers. If your experience leads you that the best around were flown in the lofts that consisted of pure bred birds - bred from a certain family from Performance from the start... then you would follow this source until you found the same.
I think there is more then just a bird that summersaults. But that's just my opinion...
What ever happened to your FireBall project?
Thor
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knaylor
53 posts
Jan 18, 2006
6:45 PM
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Eric, I live in Rio Vista Ca. Between sacramento and the Bay Area. Kevin
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
434 posts
Jan 18, 2006
7:13 PM
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Hey Thor, yeah, my use of the word somersault is in describing what the rollers do so that the uninitiated can better visualize what I am talking about. After they have that visual, I then say to them, “now imagine it somersaulting so fast it looks like a spinning ball falling from the sky” or words to that effect. This usually has the desired effect of impressing them. Lol
I am a strong believer in the free market system and I have observed that the company offering the best product usually comes out on top. I believe it is the same for the roller, the buyer will ultimately decide which the better one of the two is.
That’s not to say the product in the second place position is not good, but just that one will tend to be considered better than the other one. At this time after all these years, the opinion that Birmingham Rollers are a distinct breed has reached critical mass and trying to overcome this is like spitting into the wind.
This will remain regardless of the genetic arguments, the logical arguments and historic facts anyone may present. This is why I indicated in the earlier post that the argument may have already been decided.
This competition challenge is meaningless to prove anything as it relates to which of the 2 types of rollers are best. There are a lot of uncontrollable variables that impact the performance of a kit and to judge them at any given time is to subject ones self to a situation you have little control over and could therefore leave the impression of quality or management that is incorrect.
===============================
Fireballs: I have bred a few youngsters from the Fireballs and have watched 150 to 300 foot rolls all the waaaaay down BAM!! I will try them again in a few more days and see what they do.
But I do have a couple Fireballs I raised and I am really excited about them. They fly and kit well at this point and show a lot more control and “smarts” than the ones that rolled down. The jury is still out on them.
I will soon have a Fireball discussion board setup at our coming sister site “IPigeons.Com”. It will be ready for launch real soon, so get ready for the GRAND OPENING!!
Thor, "thanks" for asking!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
Last Edited by rollerpigeon on Jan 18, 2006 7:16 PM
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JWM65
3 posts
Jan 18, 2006
9:14 PM
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Scott
Don't waste anymore time on this clown. You don't have anything to prove, you've done well in the WC, Fall fly, and the state fly, can clif say the same? Look Clif, your in way over your head, so do everyone a favor, let it go.
I'm tired of listening to your excuses. You said Scott stacked the deck, let's see, Scott doesn't care who, where or how many birds you get to make your kit. If that's stacking the deck, it's your deck that's getting stacked.
What about that brotherhood you were talking about, all that BS about coming out of the darkness. Looks to me like your standing alone, Don't feel bad, that's the way it's always been. I don't understand, this is a color breeders dream, a chance put it to the "purist" I guess it doesn't take balls to be a color breeder.
JWM65
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Ballrollers
255 posts
Jan 19, 2006
7:34 AM
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Kevin Naylor,
Not only do I freely admit my pride in the family of birds that I fly, and that this family had a single remote outcross in its distant past to obtain each color modifier, I wrote an article about the family and published in the NBRC bulletin last year to educate guys like you. Guess you didn't read it, huh? NEWS FLASH-Yes, Kevin. The family of birds that I choose to breed and fly contains rare-colors! There must be a breed outcross back there somewhere! I didn't do it, I don't do it, and I don't care who did. It is no longer relevant to their performance. All I know is these birds perform well enough to be included in the World Cup, NBRC Fall Fly, and regional winning kits in my part of the country, as well as your own, and many regions between us. And yes, there are many men who prefer to fly 11-bird kits in this part of the world rather than to conceal true quality performance by flying larger numbers of birds in their kits. Since the advent of the World Cup, a few guys here have begun to fly 20-bird kits so we can enjoy the World Cup and the NBRC 20-bird as well. It didn't take the cream very long to rise to the top. I notice that the number of men who compete in the 11-bird comps in yor area are also increasing. To understand the 20-bird fly, the fly rules, the scoring, one needs to fly in it. (Scott would love to sucker me into flying against him in a fly that he has experience with and I have never flown!!) The same holds true for the 11-bird fly. It is just another way to enjoy our birds; another choice for the flyers, that's all.
YITS,
Cliff
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Ballrollers
256 posts
Jan 19, 2006
7:50 AM
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Guys, I want to pause a minute and impose on Tony's good will to set the record straight about Earl's List. Earl's List is not an "invite-only" site requiring an interview. All one needs is a sponser (a current member) who will acknowledge the fact that he is a serious roller breeder and not a PETA secret agent. LOL! The moderator, Jim Petersen, like Tony, the moderator of this site, is a great guy who is committed to the sport and to the breed.
YITS, Cliff
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wizard
2 posts
Jan 19, 2006
9:03 AM
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cliff.....you keep sayin........scott is cheetin....if you would spend more time flyin ...less time gripin.......{man you wine....like a little scool girl}.....just say yes or no..it's pretty black an white........its always some one who is scared to fly that always comes up with soooooo many excuses......just put up or shut up.....you always have something to say till someone calls you out.........then here comes the school girl attitude.. wizard
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Mongrel Lofts
118 posts
Jan 19, 2006
9:24 AM
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Hey Jay,
First off, I don't have my own personal Roller club site. My only national club is the NBRC. My local Roller club is the Idaho Roller Club..Any and all Roller breeders are welcome to be members and to fly whatever breed of Roller they choose to breed in both these clubs. Whether they be Birmingham rollers or American rare colored rollers. Well, you do have to live in SW Idaho to fly in my local club.
What these guys are talking about, is a yahoo chat site that was created by an individual to talk Birmingham rollers. Not a club or a site that has ever claimed to be open to any and all that I know of. Bob has what he claims is a National Roller club. Open to any and all roller breeders. What Bob does, would be like the NBRC web site, banning him, before he has ever even posted on their National club site that claims to be open to any and all roller breeders. We all know a Nationl roller club is not the same as a yahoo chat site! NBRC would never do any thing like that. They are truly an open club for all Rollers and their breeders.. Just wanted to make sure you understood their is no other club Jay, just a chat site set up by a guy who wants to talk Birmingham roller without having to defend it as a breed every other post..
Jay, if you are interested in being on that Birmingham roller talk site, write me personal at extravelocity95@aol.com so I can get your E-address.. Its not a club though,, just a personal site.. Mongrel Lofts
Last Edited by Mongrel Lofts on Jan 19, 2006 9:28 AM
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
660 posts
Jan 19, 2006
10:07 AM
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Kenny.Just so everything is clear.The NPRA is a National Club.Bob McGuan is the President.Bob does not make decisions on his own.Everything is voted on by the Board of Directors and passed by majority vote.David
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Slobberknocker
75 posts
Jan 19, 2006
11:24 AM
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Kenny,
Since you so badly want to be a part of our forum, please email me privately at mcguan@charter.net and I will outline the rules for posting on our forum. If you can abide by these rules, you are welcome to participate. This applies to anyone else who feels you have been discriminated against.
Bob
Last Edited by Slobberknocker on Jan 19, 2006 11:25 AM
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Ballrollers
258 posts
Jan 19, 2006
12:35 PM
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Well, I guess we can't come to an agreement, Scott. Sorry about that. Maybe next time. Tell you what, when I get twenty so-called rare-colored rollers that I think might might meet your specific criteria, I'll give you a heads up, but I doubt you will ever agree to fair terms. I have been told not to expect an attitude of fair play and sportsmanhip from you....something about a dispute between you and Brian Krog over some auction birds you purchased of his...but we won't go there.
For example, this "pulling birds from any source" crap. You know as well as any of us, that trying to pull birds from a number of lofts and trying to blend them into a working kit in a short period of time would be a long shot, regardless of what family of birds being used. There is, of course, little chance that they would learn to kit and perform together as a unit. You'd love for me to bite on that one wouldn't you, and fly an amalgum of birds from several lofts that won't harden into a single performing unit? LOL! Then your linebred family that has been bred and trained to fly as one unit would kick butt! Ya gotta give you credit for trying though! LOL!
So you are not willing to negotiate the fly rules, nor the kit size, and I never did hear back on the selection of judges. You persist on your nonsense that I can use only rare-colored "looking" birds from a mongrel family. Then you even refuse to list all the colors that might meet your criteria. Nor have you acknowledged which rare-colors would qualify, like those that look like standard colors, though they are rare-colored, and can only be identified though breeding records, not by feather color as they sit on a perch. I must say that it has been very gratfying for all of us to see that you consider standard color rollers bred off mongrel parents more as pure Birmingham rollers rather than mongrels, so they are disqualified, at least to your way of thinking. (There are simply too many expressions of color for even me to correctly identify.) You may want to brush up on your basic pigeon genetics a little, so that you understand a just a little more about the genetics of rare-colors before you take on another such wager. I think you can probably borrow KGB's Genetics I and II tapes by James Turner and Tony Roberts! LOL! I believe that he recommends it for viewing, to understand the basics of rare-color genetics.
The point is, that you will not even try to work through these things, so there will be no fly. As was said before, our score sheets will, over time, indicate whether the fruit of our labors have been worth it or not. Maybe in 7 or 8 years, I will find MYSELF calling out some rambunctious upstart in the competition venue, in order to somehow discredit his ideas and philosophies of breeding and flying competitions rolers, as well as his family of birds......but somehow I doubt that.
Best of luck in the '06 World Cup.
YITS
Cliff
(OK! Let's now hear all that name-calling and all those catcalls from all of Scott's supporters!! LOL!! I'm ready for ya, baby!! LOL!)
Last Edited by Ballrollers on Jan 19, 2006 12:47 PM
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Double D
108 posts
Jan 19, 2006
1:00 PM
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I have an extremely rare Birmingham Roller for sale. Prettiest thing you ever saw. It's a fine cock that I would recommend for breeding purposes. I'm actually offering this roller for free for a limited time so you may want to hurry. Just so you know, the darn thing looks like a cocker spaniel but man can he roll. His parents didn't roll but I've brought the roll back into this particular family. He'll roll on command and does it with speed and great form and the depth is quite good. I used to think it was a cocker spaniel but now that it can perform the roll with the best of them, I'm declaring it a Birmingham Roller. I'm sure he'll go fast so be the first caller at 1-800-ifitcanrollitmustbearoller and he's yours. I'll even pay to ship him to you. Good Luck!
Last Edited by Double D on Jan 19, 2006 1:02 PM
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ROLLERMAN
27 posts
Jan 19, 2006
2:43 PM
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Sorry guys over 225 messages and you still dont have it iron out. And i dont think you will. now i remember why i stopped flying in competitions over 30 years ago.Some of these new people with rollers must be sitting in front of there screen say wow. Not good for the future roller flyers..Now they dont know what to own
Sorry guys just my view
Last Edited by ROLLERMAN on Jan 19, 2006 4:37 PM
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nicksiders
356 posts
Jan 19, 2006
2:55 PM
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Double D,
How much for the roller and what color is it?........Sorry fellas, this is probably not as funny as I think it is.....LOL.
Last Edited by nicksiders on Jan 19, 2006 2:56 PM
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1-bad-57
8 posts
Jan 19, 2006
5:10 PM
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I am one of those new people to the roller sport. I had rollers as a kid and really enjoyed them. After a 30 year lay off I've decided to enjoy them again. I've was in the sport of competitive archery and the traditional guys are against the modern bows guys. In hotrods it was the steel guys against the fiberglass guys. I don't think I will be getting into competitive rollers, to political and way to much mine is better than your's. Are most of the people here posting 15 year olds? . When you take something that seriosly you can't be having that much fun, isn't that what we're suppose to be doing? Wake up guys none of you are that smart. Life is too short enjoy whatever you choose to do in life, Joe
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knaylor
54 posts
Jan 19, 2006
5:28 PM
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Cliff said,:I have been told not to expect an attitude of fair play and sportsmanhip from you....something about a dispute between you and Brian Krog over some auction birds you purchased of his...but we won't go there: Cliff you just went there and it shows that you have no class and no nothing about the situation!!!!! Kevin
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motherlodelofts
573 posts
Jan 19, 2006
6:42 PM
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Cliff wrote :
Well, I guess we can't come to an agreement, Scott. Sorry about that. Maybe next time. Tell you what, when I get twenty so-called rare-colored rollers that I think might might meet your specific criteria, I'll give you a heads up, but I doubt you will ever agree to fair terms. I have been told not to expect an attitude of fair play and sportsmanhip from you....something about a dispute between you and Brian Krog over some auction birds you purchased of his...but we won't go there.
Cliff as for that last sentence here , why would you bring something up that you know nothing about and happened long before you slithered into this sport?
Nor has anything to do with anything other than trying justify your dribble.
Here are the facts Cliff, it had nothing to do with the auction birds , it had to do with some birds that he owed me from another deal.
Brian sold far more birds than he could produce after aquireing Monty Neibles birds, a year went by on the birds he owed me and he said he would have the birds that Spring, Spring came and went.
After about 2 1/2 years it finaly came to a head after someone else brought it up that he owed birds to also for a long period of time and he told me to drive up in the Spring to pick up a kit.
I called Rick Schoening (05 W/C judge) in Montana and told him if he wanted a that kit to drive up that Spring and get them as I had no use for them, he was happy for the offer as he had been up in BC a couple of times picking up birds and was working the Neible birds.
Late Winter Rick called me and asked if it was ok if Stuart Brown out of Washington could drive up to BC and pick them up and that they would split them.
I told him I didn't care who got them as long as someone did , the birds were picked up by Stuart and he and Rick Schoening split the kit between them , that was at least two or three years ago.
So in the end Brian Krog held up his end of the bargain altough it took a long time and that was the end of the story , until just now when you brought it up.
Not that any of this is your business Cliff but since you brought it up on a puplic forum trying to somehow turn it around trying to attack my charactor along with the rest of this non stop dribble that I won't even respond to, what a shmuck , your a real no class act Cliff.
Scott Campbell
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jan 19, 2006 7:09 PM
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motherlodelofts
575 posts
Jan 19, 2006
7:17 PM
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Cliff wrote :
First of I want to deal with the issue of pulling birds from different lofts. In the challenge, Scott, that I accepted, you said very clearly, "Put a kit of so-called rare-colored mongrels together, and I will fly against that kit for five grand." You made no mention of where they might come from. So I think all my options remain open, about where the birds come from, unless you are backing down from your challenge.
Now Cliff writes :
For example, this "pulling birds from any source" crap. You know as well as any of us, that trying to pull birds from a number of lofts and trying to blend them into a working kit in a short period of time would be a long shot, regardless of what family of birds being used. There is, of course, little chance that they would learn to kit and perform together as a unit.
Yep Cliff thats color birds for you ,careful of the early landers that you wanted to flag up also "no heart" ,around and around the cirlce we go
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Jan 19, 2006 8:10 PM
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birdman
113 posts
Jan 19, 2006
7:51 PM
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Cliff, this whole thing reminds me of the following fable:
THE MULE
A mule had a long rest and much good feeding. He was feeling very vigorous indeed, and pranced around loftily, holding his head high.
"I must certainly be a full-blooded racer," he said. "I can feel that distinctly."
Next day he was put into harness again and that evening he was very downhearted indeed.
"I was mistaken," he said. "I am only a mule afterall."
Moral of the story: BE SURE OF YOUR PEDIGREE BEFORE YOU BOAST OF IT.
Last Edited by birdman on Jan 19, 2006 7:57 PM
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JWM65
4 posts
Jan 19, 2006
7:54 PM
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Clif,
My grandfather said, never listen to anyone who could
talk out of both sides of their mouth. Your real good at it Clif. How low are you willing to go? I was pissed at you, but now I feel sorry for you. Your a pathetic loser.
JWM65
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Steve S.
74 posts
Jan 19, 2006
8:01 PM
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Hey men,
Been a while since I been here.
I heard of a big $ fly between 2 guys on some other lists.
And the talk was on Tonys site.
I read alot of posts and only came up with retoric.
Seems like Cliff got his goat tied on a short chain and can't get him loose.
I would like to see the outcome of a fly like this.
But as loft against loft...same band numbers not a mixed bunch of lofts.
I guess I'll have to see the outcome from the W/C between these 2 guys Scott and Cliff of who gets the biggest score.
Fellas dis the big money so no one gets hurt to bad.
The "Pride" of life will kill ya.
Don't mean nothin....
Ya win some and lose some..
Later
Steve
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Double D
109 posts
Jan 19, 2006
9:21 PM
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Sorry nick, the cocker span ... I mean roller is already gone. Someone else beat you to him. He's kind of a cream self color. You really missed your chance. I'll tell you what I'm willing to do though. The new fancier is going to cross him with a mallard duck and give me one of the offspring. If I can get it to roll would you be interested? We're thinking some curly little feathers at the end of a stubby tail will really put some velocity into the roll. And the colors, can you imaging a green head on a roller?
Last Edited by Double D on Jan 19, 2006 9:23 PM
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Mongrel Lofts
119 posts
Jan 19, 2006
10:14 PM
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I guess I see Scott moving away as letting his mouth write a check his birds wouldn't cash. He has a history of being less than sporting, enough said.
Jim
Guys,
This and a few other post over on the NPRA site, is what Bob Gaum calls not letting conflict and controversy on his site.. This post and others posted by some on his site, is what these guys mean, by not letting members disrespect others.. I can see why he don't want us on his site to defend ourselves.. We might not agree with what he calls, getting along and showing repect for each other.. LOL Mongrel Lofts
Last Edited by Mongrel Lofts on Jan 19, 2006 10:17 PM
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wizard
3 posts
Jan 19, 2006
10:38 PM
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hey cliff...........how many birds do you have to breed a year to get that magic number.....11....just so you can fly............i don't know if you know it but..........crap begets crap........i don't care how long you breed it you can't breed the crap out of it..but you go ahead and just live in your little fantasy ....lot..[.world would be to big for you] you can't see for all the crap in your yard......but you just go ahead and b.s. everybody about how good your crap really is.......if you was a REAL man.....you would of took the challange....no matter how many birds where or when..........but beins your just a school girl.........Brian Manning...
Last Edited by wizard on Jan 19, 2006 11:04 PM
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J_Star
192 posts
Jan 20, 2006
4:33 AM
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Kenny, Thanks and I will email you my email address.
Brian Manning, no reason for the name calling, please refrain. This is between Scott and Cliff and I am sure that they both can handle it. Thanks for being a sport.
Cliff, with all due respect, no wonder why you were kicked out from other sites, now I come to realize that you really don't know when to stop. All what you have accomplished is that other participants need not to engage with you in a discussion because it will not lead anywhere and will not stop until it is your way or the highway. This is not of being Scott's supporter nor cliff's supporter, it is just the conclusion drawn from all those posts. I wonder how many people draw the same conclusion!!
You know, I don’t know Scott by person, but I know his behavior and his character on this site for quite sometime and his character speaks for itself. There is no justifiable reason to attack his character. We all have deals that don’t go as we want, that does not make any of us any less worthy because you hear the story from one side. The story needs to be heard from both sides before you make a judgment of character and that if it concerns you in the first place.
Best to luck to you all.
Jay
Last Edited by J_Star on Jan 20, 2006 5:06 AM
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
435 posts
Jan 20, 2006
4:47 AM
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To Some, please (re)read the Posting Policy and then go back to your post/s and then edit them. Please don't make me have to clean up your stuff! (JEEZ! I sound like my MOM now!! LOL)
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
661 posts
Jan 20, 2006
5:31 AM
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Good ole MOMS.Mine will be 81 in May and still going strong.She still lets us know if we get out of line.LOL. David
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C.J.M.
2 posts
Jan 20, 2006
5:53 AM
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Wow I find it a little puzzling how people who aren't involved directly in this wager find it appropriate to call either of these two men names, i.e a school girl etc grow up. Or for someone to bring up bad dealings from only one side or to say that a person is slimy.You can post your comments without acting childish your self. What are you trying to prove? That you can sit behind your computer and type nasty stuff. It takes little or no balls to call someone names on here. It definitely takes no class or style. Leave the crap until you meet them in person Then if you still feel so strongly say it to their faces. I think you will be a little tamer. No matter how much you name call or badger either of these guys you aren't going to accomplish anything. I think Tony should include a maturity level on his site policy. For the most part this posting started off really interesting. Now it has become like a school yard bullying thing, everyone wants in. One view point picking on the other. Then you have new guys jumping just because they want to feel tough. A little advice to all who write meaningless drivel. Key board it into a word program then save it. Come back in a day and reread it. This time look and see how you would feel if you were having this written about you. Then if you are still feeling heartless and mean cut and paste in to the post on this site.
I applaud you both on trying to do something interesting now I just wonder who will be the bigger man and drop the subject. That truely would show class.
Lets all get along and provide some useful information for fanciers.
Roll On!!
C.J.M.
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Gregg
10 posts
Jan 20, 2006
6:13 AM
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CJM. Thank you. You get a kudo also along with Brian McCormick. I try to always remember that these are National Forums where in the members are well advised to consider the impression they leave with their words. These are fellow roller men whom you may share a backyard with sometime in the future. Respect will always remain the element required in any post. Your ability or inability to show respect in the message you post, positive or negative, pro or con, will speak volumes about your own character. We are all human and as such are going to make errors in judgement, self included. I would just ask you to think about this subject. When you disagree with another man please act like a man, even if he doesn't. If you don't expect or show respect, how do you think you are going to receive any respect.
Gregg.
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C.J.M.
3 posts
Jan 20, 2006
6:55 AM
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Gregg Ecellent post.
Roll On!!
C.J.M.
Last Edited by C.J.M. on Jan 20, 2006 6:56 AM
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
436 posts
Jan 20, 2006
7:07 AM
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Hey Greg and CJM, your suggestions are well timed and appropriate. Thanks for injecting sanity back to some of this discussion. I will add maturity to the policy.
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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chuck
1 post
Jan 20, 2006
7:19 AM
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Please ignore the User name to the left "Chuck". My brother has signed on with this list on my computer and this site has picked up his name, somehow.This post is from me, Cliff, aka Ballrollers
Scott and all the members of this list,
Scott, when you and I first made the wager, I talked to a few flyers accross the country to see if they were interested in taking your bet. They, like me, had questions as to kit size, fly rules, judges, etc. Some brought up a dispute between you and Brian Krog that was aired publically on an internet list, that left a bad taste in
peoples' mouths. It is obvious from the tone of the recent posts, here, that our passion for our birds and for our philosophies in breeding them has taken you and I down the same road of having a negative impact on the hobby. Nothing good can come of this trashing of people all over the internet. I am sorry that I contributed to that in any way. That was not my intention. As I posted in the beginning, "Let's have fun with this." It has become something much more sinister.
Because of the intensity of our debate and our convictions, and the discussion that resulted, some roller men have gotten the wrong impression about both of us and about the hobby in general. For those of you who do not know, Scott and I met at the last NBRC convention in Denver and shared meals, raised a beer or two together and had good man-to-man conversations, and good times together. I'd like to recall the spirit of that comraderie, if possible. Scott, WE ALL know that you are an expereinced and accomplished flyer who is willing to take on all comers. I understand your position in this debate, though we disagree.You are a man of very high standards for your birds, and a man who is absolutely committed to what you feel is best for the NBRC and the World Cup. I want to acknowledge you for that, and apologize if any of my comments have called into question, any aspect of your character and your committment to the hobby and to the breed of pigeons we breed and fly.
We can all do better than this guys. I'd like to take the first step forward in that spirit.
YITS
Cliff
This post has been edited by me, Cliff, not my brother, Chuck. (What can I do about this cookie problem, Tony?)
Last Edited by chuck on Jan 20, 2006 7:33 AM
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
437 posts
Jan 20, 2006
7:53 AM
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Hey All, I want to continue on Cliffs theme of reconciliation by saying that lest anyone gathered the wrong impression of Scott by some of the posts on this thread (not that he needs me to say this).
Scott was one of the first contributors to this board when it was setup. He has steadily contributed valuable knowledge and insight to the visitors of the All Roller Talk forum.
Experienced breeders and flyers like Scott with his passion and ideals have kept the roller sport going throughout the years. The roller hobby needs more good people like him.
How many of us have quality pigeons in this day and age because of Fanciers such as Scott???
"THANKS SCOTT"
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
438 posts
Jan 20, 2006
7:57 AM
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Chuck, I mean Cliff, I mean...oh well
Just delete the cookies and see if this doesnt fix the problem. If problem persists, dont share computers! lol
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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C.J.M.
4 posts
Jan 20, 2006
8:34 AM
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Chuck LoL if you click the log into meesage board it will give you the option of re logging in under your own handle. I would also like to congratulate you on being a big man and ending this name calling game. As for you and Scott harming this hobby thats not likely. I still believe the challenge is an interesting one if it is taken for what it truely is. One fly competition between the two view points doesn't mean one person is right and the other is wrong it just means their birds had a better fly day. There are so many variables to take into count. I do agree that over a number of years the world cup will be a better judge of who's on the right track. Ib the end it really doesn't matter as long as your birds please you keep doing what you are doing. It is discussions like this that make this site interesting as long as the peanut gallery doesn't jump in and start name calling or knocking a guys character based on a stupid discussion. At the end of the day we are going to cure cancer or world peace we are just going to have had a good time and a few laughs. Scott I find your knowledge of the B.R. a huge asset and I hope you continue to post your view points after that is one of the things what makes this site so interesting
Roll On!!
C.J.M.
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C.J.M.
5 posts
Jan 20, 2006
8:35 AM
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Wizard excellent move!
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
662 posts
Jan 20, 2006
10:23 AM
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Okay.Now that everyone is taking a breather I have a question.LOL.
I have a Birmingham Roller that is just a year old.It has never been a problem but didn,t start rolling untill around 7 month.It started slow and just kept getting better as it got older.It was hitting solid 25 to 30 foot rolls finishing clean and right back to the kit.About 3 weeks ago I moved it into my a-team.
The last 4 times I have flown the kit this bird will do its thing with a good solid roll but has started to do this little loop te do twizzle type thing at the end of the roll before heading back to the kit.Kind of amusing to watch but according to the Fly rules this bird can't be scored.
It has taken me back to something Pensom wrote 75 + years ago that said this type of roller was his Ideal Roller and what was being bred for in the Birmingham area.So my questions is When did this type of roller stop being bred for?And why is it a fault if the true Birmingham Roller was being bred for this feature? Do I have a throwback on my hands? I have never seen this happen untill this bird.Also I should add it only does this early in the release and the last 5 minutes or so before landing.Cull or not for competition.David
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Shaun
254 posts
Jan 20, 2006
10:42 AM
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Hey, David, your question is going to get lost on this, the arse-end of the longest post in roller history! Why not start a new post - we could all do with it! Perhaps you might have something to say on the question I've just posted - a man of your breeding experience.
Shaun
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Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
663 posts
Jan 20, 2006
10:57 AM
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Shaun.I figured this was the proper place to ask it considering the beginning post.LOL. David
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motherlodelofts
576 posts
Jan 20, 2006
11:26 AM
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It is most definetly time for this thing to come to an end and it serves no purpose nor has or will any good came from it.
Cliffs passion for the birds speaks for itself,and I have to say that he has alot of heart when it comes to what he believe's same as I do and many here.
Unfortanatly when it comes to the keyboard it is easy for many including myself to go to far and to strike where it hurts trying to proove a point that is basicly meaningless in the over all picture of things and only spures hard feelings and resenment both of which all of us can do without in our lives and robs of of the pleasures that these birds brings to us.
It is time to shake hands , agree to disagree and move on to more productive issues surrounding these birds which is why most are here.
Scott Campbell
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