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The Original All Roller Talk Discussion Board Archive >
Dear! jim
Dear! jim
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Velo99
281 posts
Mar 20, 2006
5:02 AM
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Al,
My 2 year tenure as a backyard flyer is just about over. In two weeks I will participate in my first fly.I am naturally a competetive person. I also have a desire to know that I am breeding toward THE standard. Only way to know this is to have a JUDGE at my house watching my birds.
You`re entitled to your opinions,but until one participates in at least one fly,it is all just your opinion period.Sorry if you don`t agree. This is my opinion and I feel I am entitled to it as well.
So we can agree to disagree and still have the same love and passion for the birds.
YITS
KennyH
Last Edited by Velo99 on Mar 20, 2006 5:07 AM
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spinnerdom
27 posts
Mar 20, 2006
5:25 AM
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i hope your JUDGE YELLS out his sight calls
this way you shell have a better understanding
if not be prepared for comments mostly negetive
conversations with monty i said this should be done
to my surprise he did exactly that, shows me the man stood tall,live or die by the call
jim 3/20/06
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C.J.
51 posts
Mar 20, 2006
5:53 AM
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Last Edited by C.J. on Mar 21, 2006 6:00 PM
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Mongrel Lofts
155 posts
Mar 20, 2006
6:17 AM
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Hey Guys,
I want to take on last stab at explaining my self on this topic and I will leave it alone. I respect all person's for the people they are. As humans, men and women, we are all created equal under God.
This topic is about Rollers and what we do with them and who and what we respect and look at within the breed.
Lets take it away from rollers and look at a couple other sports. Maybe you will grasp what I'm talking about this way Al.. Lets take car racing.. A lot of guys build muscle cars and have a hot rod in the garage. They tinker away on weekends and think about how fast that car will be when its done. They dream of blowing guys off the track. Beating the big names in racing one day.. For many, this goes on for a life time, they dream, talk storys about when and if they raced... On Saturday, they go down to the track, pay to get in the gate and watch the guys race their cars.. On Sunday they set in front of the TV and watch the indy 500 and tell all their beer drinking buddies, Man I can drive better than that Jeff Gordon, he aint crap.. Now the guys who actually race the cars, they need these Garage racers and dreamers to be able to race. They are a support for the guys who actually race the cars.. But who is it you actually go out to see race? Who is it you really dream of being like? What is it you really want to do, but just can't or won't put in the work and lay it on the line?
You see, its the same way with all sports.. You have the doers and watchers. You have the guys who talk about how good they would be. How great they would be. How they have birds, cars, fighting cocks, play ball as good as the best in the world.. They just never step up to the plate and put it on the line to prove it.. Its the guy that actually races the cars most of us really respect. Its the guy that played high school ball then college ball and went on to be a pro we all want to be like.. He has earned his respect.. We can talk about how we could play ball just as good as Michael Jordon, but Mike DID IT!!! The guys who fly competition are doing IT! They are not telling others how great they are and how good their birds are. How if they flew, man they have the quality!! The Fly Guys are putting their necks on the line, the birds in the air to be judges and compared to the best rollers in the world.. They are putting in the work and taking the risk of falling on their face or winning the big one!! They are DOING IT, actually running the race, playing the game.. Not standing on the side lines, talking a big game.. This my friends is why I respect the FLY GUYS for what they are doing with their birds. This is why I have nothing against the back yard keeper, we need them to support the sport. But just like the guys who actually put it on the line come race day and race the cars. I respect and admire the guys actually in the game.. The people in the bleachers, they respect and admire and dream about being one of them drivers also. I respect them guys in the bleachers as people, but my admiration and respect for racing cars goes to the guys on the track.. You guys can admire and respect the guys in the bleachers and in front of the TV if you wish? LOL In rollers, my respect and admiration, goes to the guys putting it on the line and flying their kits to prove they can hang with the best in the world.. Win, Lose or Draw,, they are in the game DOING IT!! MONGREL LOFTS
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Fr.mike
105 posts
Mar 20, 2006
6:55 AM
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Hey 661--I believe if you read my previous post you can count at least one!--that values his posts!and I bet there are alot more out of the thousands of hits on this site(that dont ever post) that value his opinion.remember value doesnt meen someone must agree.I believe stalin had that kind of mentality.Its the 31 flavors that make this site so interesting--Come on Rollerman--how bout it--Please reconsider.To be straight up and honest I believe that comp. flying is the way to go but what do I know?--I only have my first six birds in the kit box-I will be 70 before i even come close to rollerman-experince-so-----whats your answer Al?
Fr.mike
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spinnerdom
28 posts
Mar 20, 2006
8:37 AM
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well mongel if i had an axe to grin your last put you in your grave.
competion flyers make rules to win for them selves
p/ h style perpetuated rule is a joke to day.
10' can of worms,ha frequence over quality what a joke
competion flyers keeping good flyers out in areas
fixed flys winner long before the fly
competion flyers running to top flyers throwing dollars
for birds they cant bred for themselves.
i am sorry they get no respect from me.give the competion to the bird,that respect is long over due.
jim 3/20/06
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dave
70 posts
Mar 20, 2006
8:48 AM
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Jim, you are one funny guy, lol. Please enlighten us rookies some more and instead of asking more questions to guys that try to input like Brian could you please just come straight out and share your knowledge with us.
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
433 posts
Mar 20, 2006
11:14 AM
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Jim, a Dead Pigeon Flying is a roll down that just hasn't happened yet, or a bird I will personally and permanently cull upon it's return.
A "dead man walking" is a saying on death row.
A "dead pigeon flying" is a saying for those roll downs and culls.
For what it is worth Jim. Read what you write, then ask yourself if what you are preaching is truly the way the majority think. If the WC were rigged or using rules that benifit the flyers, it wouldn't be as successful as it is today. For every person who only states in a psuedo-fanatical way nothing but anti-sentiments and negativity towards a roller flys, there will be 20 who will stand up and say, you are wrong, we enjoy the flys, respect the rules and breed for the best rollers our birds can possibly produce.
Excuses are easy to create and even easier to paint the walls of a forum room.
Breeding good rollers and having the ability to fly by the rules is something many people cannot do, nor are willing to.
If you push, you will get pushed back.
Just read what you want to preach in each of your posts before you post one.
Brian.
Last Edited by MCCORMICKLOFTS on Mar 20, 2006 11:15 AM
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C.J.M.
8 posts
Mar 20, 2006
11:53 AM
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I can't believe that some of the fanciers on here believe they are better than others just because they compete in or are aiming to compete in the World Cup or other flies. I have been in this hobby for 35 years and know tons of guys who by your description would be considered a back yard fancier and they have some of the best birds out there. They keep records, breed in individual pens and cull anything that doesn’t roll to their goals. They just opt not to compete. Does this mean they are any less a roller man? Ahhh no. Does it mean that their birds aren’t as good as yours? Ahhh no.. It just means they choose not to compete thats it nothing more nothing less. If you think your birds are better just because you decide to compete then you are delusional. By your little narrow minded statement you have alienated a huge portion of our hobby unfairly. This is another example of people knowing little to nothing shooting their mouths off without any factual basis. Next there will be the statement that only fanciers with blue eyes are true roller men. Please, give me a break All people who choose not to compete aren’t back yard fancier . By my description a back yard fancier would be a person who just has the birds and enjoys seeing them fly around. Whatever pairings happen he flies those birds. This person has little or no breeding program and does nothing to control the pairing of birds or no vision as to where he wants his family to be and you know what thats o.k. I respect them as much as any fancier. You know why? Because they are in the hobby and any person is an asset to this great sport. I know a lot of guys who start out as back yarders then become hard core after they get hooked. Then you go to go on and say that only the guys who compete put in hard work on their rollers. This is ridiculous. One thing I do agree that just because a guy breeds rollers for a long time doesn’t mean he knows how to raise good rollers. But just because you compete doesn’t mean you have a clue either. THIS IS JUST MY OPINION!!
Last Edited by C.J.M. on Mar 20, 2006 1:00 PM
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knaylor
82 posts
Mar 20, 2006
12:11 PM
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C.J.M., You are right about just because you compete doesnt mean you have the best birds or that you know rollers. Trust me I see alot of people that compete that need alot of help. But it is a fact that unless you go out and put your birds up against the very best in the country or world you will not know how they rate. That is all Kenny is saying. Why are you crying sour grapes. He never said all the stuff you think he said. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and alot of guys have a totally different opinion of what a good rool is. I have seen guys get excited over total crap before. I have seen guys stock birds that would not even make it to my A team. The only way to find out is if you put them to the true test and that is by competing. Kevin
Last Edited by knaylor on Mar 20, 2006 12:14 PM
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Dave Szab
24 posts
Mar 20, 2006
12:43 PM
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I have raised Birmingham rollers since I was 5 years old, except for 7 years in the 90's. That's 33 years, but I only started competition flying in 2000. In these 5 years of competition flying, I have done very well in the competitions, and it has shown me how my birds and my mangement stack up against flyers all over the world. Back yard flyers, you need to get out of your backyards and see what's out there. Put your birds up for comparison, I did it, and I succeeded, you can do it too. You will end up flying better birds, meeting lots of great rollermen, and have a fantastic time doing it!
Dave Szabatura
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C.J.M.
9 posts
Mar 20, 2006
1:03 PM
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I am not crying sour grapes. Everything I pointed out is valid. Even if you put your birds in the air against another fancier and lose. It doesn't mean his birds are better it just means they had a better day.
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Velo99
282 posts
Mar 20, 2006
2:05 PM
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CJM,
I didn`t state I was better than anyone else, just more credible. What has been stated is there IS A STANDARD! A certified judge comes to my loft and judges my birds AGAINST THE STANDARD. There is also a program for certifying individual birds AGAINST THE STANDARD.
No one is denigrating you or your birds. We think enough of our programs and birds to have a judge rate them AGAINST THE STANDARD, and give us a rating. Now our birds/programs are certified and yours are not. Draw your own conclusions.
I also didn`t state be a continual flyer I said compete at least once. Surely you could muster up a good kit of birds and fly once. Local,State,National,or World. Most levels of competetion are open to everyone. Hell hire a judge and fly against three of your buddies.
YITS
KennyH
Last Edited by Velo99 on Mar 20, 2006 2:13 PM
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knaylor
83 posts
Mar 20, 2006
2:41 PM
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Kenny H., very well said. That is how most local clubs are formed. Everyone has a bad fly or two but if you fly on a regular basis then you will know how you stack up. Then again it is alot easier to tell you how good my birds are then to show you??? LOL I also agree with Dave S. I had rollers for two years before I started competing. Then the fun and enjoyment of the people and birds really started!!!! Kevin
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spinnerdom
29 posts
Mar 20, 2006
7:08 PM
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i dont know how any of you can compete
you dont want to give any meat to the foram
just challeng each other goad me on spelling say i dont like scott bla bla bla
world cup not worthy of the name fact
world cup success hell only crap shot in town
any thing wrong with world cup name no
anything wrong with idea no
any thing wrong with rules yes
any thing wrong with structure yes
anything wrong with judges very hard to judge too many birds
with the wrong rules,all will change the newbes will see to that, most of all the bird has no respect
4 birds dont even count team, every indevidualcounts
small breeder has very tough time mother nature makes sure of that. dam dam dam wake up and smell the roses
look yous gotten to be is now ding shit,
long live fairness,honesty,goodwill, people
world cup name, most of all,the best of it all the birds
mother natures weasel took another sweety, last night
i can kill him the rest a little bit harder
enough for now hsaps
jim 3/20/06 weres the beef
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motherlodelofts
664 posts
Mar 20, 2006
7:28 PM
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You want Beef Jim , quit snivlen over the way that "you" think it outa be and put them up for the world to see.
You say 20 birds is too many birds ? bullshit , its not amature time.
Jim you brought up hardesty several times , Jim I know Carl and I have been in his backyard, does he have some good birds ? yep , and your point is ? oh the "best" ,there are equels out there I promise you.
Forget the way that "you" think it is Jim and tell us a little about you and your birds Jim.
You jumping up an down about the W/C because you think you know too much won't get you to far with most of us here.
Many of us here are fliers Jim, we don't just talk about it , we DO it.
Inlighten us with your knowledge Jim and tell us why birds should be judged from the side and why culls such as axel wingers are your prefered bird
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Mar 20, 2006 7:34 PM
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spinnerdom
30 posts
Mar 20, 2006
8:04 PM
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a model a mechanic certified
comes to fix my 2006 jag
what are the long term consequences
you can eat an elephant, just take small bits . mr bradford
i explained a axel , read the post.
x wing are judged , all in here put them up or shutup.
you dont open your eyes.
iknow you could not judge one roller, you dont understand what you see, ba ba ba bye hsap
jim 3/20/06
Last Edited by spinnerdom on Mar 20, 2006 8:07 PM
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motherlodelofts
666 posts
Mar 20, 2006
8:27 PM
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That does it , tomorrow I'm putting my Grandma on the first greyhound headed north to kick your ass.
I'll tell her to just look for a kit of six birds that look like an orange with a corn cob stuck through it when they roll.
Then I'll have her swing down to Jim Osche's and deal with him if she can pull him out from under the bed, might as well kill two birds with one greyhound bus ticket !!
Last Edited by motherlodelofts on Mar 20, 2006 8:40 PM
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spinnerdom
31 posts
Mar 20, 2006
8:47 PM
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well hate to admite it but you must have judged my birds be for. you gave me a lousy 2000 points,im still shaking.
tony shouldnt side bar profile be who who
not who who and no side bar profile ?
that dam nit pickin spinner, jim 3/20/06
oh nice post,your grandmother will be just fine, a refined lady is just what i need.thank you pard. nit nit dont let the jsrggers bit. jim
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knaylor
85 posts
Mar 20, 2006
9:03 PM
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Jim, you say that you are an old timer but 20 birds are too many to judge. All the old times I know say that when the W/C allowed less than 20 birds they messed up. They all say true comps are 20 birds and no less. If you have been it it for so long and have won lots of trophies and judged all over why havent we heard of you.Then you say all the newbies will get the rules changed. I am going to go out on a limb here and say that you are bogus. You sound like another guy???? He hasnt been posting lately..... Kevin
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spinnerdom
32 posts
Mar 20, 2006
9:38 PM
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the world cup right from the start was 20 birds
came out of the west p/ite country that.
numbers out of proffesor in seatleif memory is right
then carved in stone for 5yrs then 5 more.
so you have been miss lead. nothing new. ba ba ba
xwing:
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spinnerdom
33 posts
Mar 20, 2006
9:53 PM
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xwing: you have put your gene into a bag,shook it up out came x wing[dead mans zone]has nothing to contribute.
they are too big to spin, or too small to roll.
wing load aprox 8 1/2 to 9 1/2"a cull
but after moult may grow to be a roller
measure them for your self, nothing like learning.
going to dictionary on some words a pain but i will learn
try it you will like it bye hsaps
jim/3/20/06
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Phantom1
133 posts
Mar 21, 2006
6:11 AM
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Okay, I gotta bite. Kenny H - what's the standard? This has been asked before and can't be answered. Tony tried it. It died. Can you provide the standard that everyone should be breeding toward? Or is the "standard" a loose interpretation of what the assigned judge considers on fly day?
Here's my take. The only "standard" is that which one man chooses to breed toward. It's almost better that no one out there can legitimately provide a written standard for all us roller people. Why? Well, for one, there'd be no reason for these forums. We'd all have a copy of a picture and a written description that we knew to breed towards. You've got good birds, so does Scott, Kenny B, David S, Tony, ALL of us have what we consider to be good birds...and I'm sure we all do. But they're all different in the same respects. Scott has explained his breeding principles/program to me over the past year or so. It's nothing similar to what I'm doing today. Doesn't mean it's wrong, or that my way is wrong. At the end of the day, he's got good birds, so do I.
I don't like the concept of breeding my rollers to fit into the mold of what Judge A, Judge B, or Judge C wants to see on fly day. Let's face it - the judge you get may score you lower or higher than any previous judge. Why? It's subjective and comes down to you birds being ON or OFF. I also raise Chinese Owls. Those are EASY. I've got a picture of what the ideal is. A breakdown of what the the points to be scored are, and the available points for each feature. There's also a breakdown of the color classes and what can be shown and what should be shown where. Again, simple. It's a show breed though. There's no subjectivity in that there's a written standard for everyone to breed towards. If these rollers were that way, we should all have comparible birds.
Being more credible because you fly is hogwash. I don't need the kudos from my fellow fliers that I flew in competition and am now a credible source for good rollers. Do I intend on flying - sure! Why though? Because I'm looking forward to having some fun. Not making known that I have better birds than you or anyone else. It's competition no doubt. And you compete to win. But you don't know how to win, until you know how to loose. This is a very humbling sport/hobby. And if you're not able to be humble, I might suggest getting into Chinese Owls LOL!
Eric
Last Edited by Phantom1 on Mar 21, 2006 6:35 AM
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Fr.mike
107 posts
Mar 21, 2006
7:10 AM
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Spinnerdom--Go to office supply Office Max or something like it maybe walmart --go to electronics section and get a pocket dictionary--then punch in your word any way you think it might be spelled and--WALA--it will correct your spelling for you! hope this helps.
Fr.mike
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maxspin
20 posts
Mar 21, 2006
9:05 AM
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Eric,
The Birmingham Roller is first and foremost a performance breed, so “The Standard” is the rules we fly under. The World Cup is the largest fly. Many feel it is the most prestigious fly.
See complete rules at The World Cup Website.
“The Standard” For World Cub Competition
1) Kit size. The kit size may range from 15 to 20 birds, but at least 5 must ROLL together in order to score.
Eric, “The Standard” is a 20 bird kit.
3) Fly time. The kit is “in judgment” for 20 minutes after time-in or until the second bird lands, whichever occurs first. However, the kit shall be disqualified if more than one bird fails to fly for at least 15 minutes after time-in .
Eric, “The Standard” is a 20 minute fly
5) Bird-out. Except for a 15 bird kit, scoring shall continue if one bird leaves the kit. Scoring is suspended but timing continues if 2 or more birds are out.
Eric, “The Standard” is for Kit competition not individual bird competition.
7) Scoring.
The judge shall simply estimate and record the number of birds rolling adequately in unison for each break involving 5 or more. “In unison” means that the last bird involved must begin performing within ½ second of the first, and that all continue performing together for a least ½ second. The suggested minimum depth for scoring is 10 feet. Afterwards, the judge shall multiply those numbers by 1 for (5-9), 2 for (10-14), 3 for (15-19) and 5 for 20. Those results shall be added together to produce a raw score.
Eric “The Standard” says that more breaking “together” is better
Next the raw score shall be multiplied by a quality factor of 1.0 for “adequate’ to 2.0 for “truly phenomenal” based upon the judges overall impression of the average quality exhibited in all of the turns scored.
Eric “The Standard” says better quality will give higher scores.
Likewise, a depth or duration factor of 1.0 to 2.0 shall be multiplied to produce a final score. The judge shall announce the final score before leaving.
Eric “The Standard” says deeper will give higher scores as long as they can get back to the kit.
8) Integrity. The judge shall NOT score anything that does not meet his standard for adequate quality and depth or duration of performance. This competition is for ROLLERS and not tumblers! Roller flying is a subjective sport and the judge may have to make allowances for extraordinary circumstances. In any case, the judge's decision is final and anyone verbally or physically attacking the judge will be disqualified from the fly and may be banned from future WC events by the WC committee.
Eric, YES the quality and depth qualifiers are Subjective. However the World Cup is a regional fly first, and all competitors are judged under the same standard. If you look at past results you will see the same guys consistently at the top of their region, no matter who is the judge.
Keith Maxwell
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Phantom1
134 posts
Mar 21, 2006
9:29 AM
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Hey Keith!
That is probably the most comprehensive response I've ever seen. That is good reading too!!! So, as I've said before and stand by today, the word "Roller" or even moreso "Birmingham" is more of a performance standard or expectation. A lot of birds can roll. And it's gone back and forth, but just because a bird can roll, I think the majority of us will say, does NOT make it a Birmingham Roller. Fare enough.
You're breakdown of the fly rules/regulations helps validate the points I made. If I took some of KGB's birds and didn't ever fly in competition but took every word of his advice on how to continue breeding the quality of what he has now, how can one say that I have no credibility as a roller breeder? Again, hogwash.
I'm most focused on Point 8 that you made - "The judge shall NOT score anything that does not meet his standard...". This is where I look at things in this perspective. I breed, feed, water, train, handle, and care for my birds 364 days 23 1/2 hours of the year. I do the best I can with them. But I WILL NOT breed them toward what someone may or may not like for the 30 minutes they spend under my kit. I LOVE any competition and compete just for the sake of doing it and having some fun. But there's not much fun in working on something for years only to be set in front of a judge that may or may not allow your birds to meet his/her standard. I understand why Point 8 exists, and it's about as comprehensive as you can get. Additionally, I won't support a person's subjective judging determine my credibility as a roller breeder, competitor, or backyard flyer (whatever the case is).
GREAT Post Keith!
Yours in the hobby,
Eric
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Shaun
303 posts
Mar 21, 2006
10:05 AM
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Hey, Eric. Shaun here. How's it going? The subjectivity in certain sports is a regular ongoing debate. For example, despite the US not being the greatest participants of soccer - sorry, I know it may confuse, but the rest of the world calls it football, so bear with me for calling it that, too. Despite players earning zillions and games attracting attendances and television audiences of... well, rather a lot, each game's adjudication is essentially down to one guy - the referee. The number of times the ref's parentage is called into question is best illustrated by this long-standing ditty sung from the terraces of a typical football match. The words are sung to the tune of 'Oh me darlin, Clementine':
Who's your father,
who's your father,
who's your father, referee?
You haven't got one - you're a b*stard;
you're a b*stard, referee.
Please replace the asterisks with the letter 'a'.
Over a century since football was introduced, we still have the regular situation where the dodgy eyes and/or positioning of the referee, can decide the outcome of a match with the importance of the world cup at stake. Nevertheless, if the ref says the ball has crossed the line, but it didn't - then, tough titty. It matters not a jot that instant replay can show us such flaws of judgement, seconds after a call. For whatever reasons, football matches are still decided by a referee whose decision-making skills and parentage, will inevitably be the subject of heated debate, both during and after a match.
I'm sure the same goes for many other sports the world over.
My question, then, back in the roller world, is why are some so resistant to the notion that pigeon performance should be determined by the subjectivity of an individual judge?
Shaun
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spinnerdom
40 posts
Mar 21, 2006
10:16 AM
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thank you for suggestion on spelling disk
but food,taxes,heat bills,car,gas,take care of a pension.
but more brain power strain,i might get alltimers.
but honestly thanks, came from the right place.
thanks again. jim 3/20/06
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Phantom1
135 posts
Mar 21, 2006
10:17 AM
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Hey Shaun!
Good to hear from you man! I guess the difference here would be this. When I played soccer for 11 years, there was no question whether or not I could play and be effective for my team. I had business being on the field. So the subjectivity doesn't lie there within. Rather, the subjectivity comes from the ref's best guess as to what to call.
I'm confident in the assigned judges to the comp. flies. But if from year to year they change, so will the subjectivity in what is called up in the air. And, as stated before, if the kit or bird does NOT meet the judge's standard, that's not really subjectivity. That's personal preference and choice.
This is all to be expected and can't be avoided. The point I made regarding the subjectivity of these comps was this. Regardless if there was a written, hard copy, bound standard - I don't agree with any or all of us Roller folk breeding toward what someone may or may not approve of. Compete if you enjoy it! If you personally feel a need to compete to prove your validity as a roller breeder, your integrity toward other men and women like you, or that your birds are better than someone else's, then you're greatest opponent is going to be yourself and the subjectivity of the judge.
Yours in the hobby,
Eric
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spinnerdom
41 posts
Mar 21, 2006
10:53 AM
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the cavalry with meat on the plate, i thank you
owls are easy, breed to a standard,does it complement the bird
yes good standard, no bad standard. i dont know the first thing about owls but do know they aint easy,bias judges every where. but most of you know whats real.
birds judged from side view are all the same. big, small,
but all of them. circular form. x a.h.axel balls are all the same 5 styles sideview you can draw them a judge can fallow. every bird should be counted out of respect
the big p/almight hhh the best of the best,WRONG, BIAS
20 BIRDS ONLY,CAN NOT BE JUDGED,AND GIVE THE BIRD RESPECT.
IF THIS CONTINUES NO REASON FOR FEATHERS FLOGGERS ,NO GENES
TO FLOG
WORLD CUP RULES:THANK YOU WOOD TAKE ME A WEEK.OPEN MINDS
REFRESHING.LETS TAKE A RULE ONE BY ONE, IF RIGHT FOR THE BIRD, KEEP IT, WRONG FOR THE BIRDS TEAR IT UP.
Last Edited by spinnerdom on Mar 21, 2006 10:57 AM
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maxspin
21 posts
Mar 21, 2006
11:40 AM
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Eric,
Since we don’t live close enough so that I can stand under you kit, I don’t know what they look like in the air. The only way that I can give credibility to a breeder that I can’t see for myself is based on how they perform over several years in the major flies. I have no disrespect for the so called backyard flier, but if your birds aren’t judged to a Standard, and posted where I can see them, then I have no way of guessing how good your birds are.
Keith
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Phantom1
136 posts
Mar 21, 2006
11:50 AM
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Hey Keith!
Thank you very much. Your response is indicative of what a gentleman's in this sport/hobby should be. Likewise, it is up for the other party (the non-flyer or backyard flyer) to be as honest as possible about their birds. I don't know your birds, you don't know mine. There are no records of me flying in a competition. There may be for you - I'm not privy to that information. Regardless, I find no flaw in your integrity as a roller breeder. Your credibility, in my eyes, comes from your honesty and effort toward the hobby - not necessarily your fly record. These are only my feelings and thoughts on the subject.
Yours in the hobby,
Eric
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Dave Szab
25 posts
Mar 21, 2006
12:11 PM
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Eric,
I met Keith this past fall when I judged his birds in the NBRC Fall Fly. He's a great guy and he has his head screwed on right, I can tell you that. He just started in competition on the fly that I judged him, and his birds did terrific, but they got scattered by some hawks nad never got back together. He's learning fast and he's not afraid to put what he learns into practice. He goes around on the flies and takes it all in, and asks alot of questions. He's definitly a rollerman that is moving in the right direction and doing it the right way. Great job Keith, looking forward to seeing you again at the convention in Portland.
Dave Szabatura
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Phantom1
137 posts
Mar 21, 2006
12:38 PM
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Dave and Keith,
Good to hear from the both of you! Do you notice how the tone has changed somewhat? I just got acquainted with the both of you over a few posts, and neither of us had to put a single bird up to prove anything. Your integrity and credibility lies in your words...right here...right now. Great job guys! Best of luck this year! I hope to get some up in the air soon.
Yours in the hobby,
Eric
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Ballrollers
307 posts
Mar 21, 2006
5:29 PM
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Kenny H.
Now you've done it....got guys here all worked up about the issue of standards and got everybody over on Earl's list all worked up over World Cup ghost kits! LOL! You're a man after my own heart! LOL! Just pickin', buddy! YITS, Cliff
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knaylor
88 posts
Mar 21, 2006
5:57 PM
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What W/C ghost kits????????
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C.J.
53 posts
Mar 21, 2006
6:00 PM
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Phantom I agree with you 100%. Great posts.
C.J.
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Velo99
286 posts
Mar 21, 2006
6:35 PM
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Cliff,.
On the list I just asked a question. I didn`t know it was simmering cauldron waiting to boil over.
In here it was why compete. I think that the answer is just arounfd the corner. Keith and Eric are just about to do it.
lol
YITS
KennyH
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spinnerdom
42 posts
Mar 22, 2006
9:49 AM
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well a lot has been said not much meat,a lot of football .
the world cup rules are in the open,a world cup judge has come to the table,dave szab, welcome.
please tell us why axels are not judged. please
be presice. thank you .jim 3/22/06
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spinnerdom
43 posts
Mar 22, 2006
10:20 AM
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in answer to someone h style,breeding for these a long time
am i wrong.
pensom said h are the ultmate,50 yrs ago, this may have been so. at that time i had MC RAE 30'TO60'DONUTS, LOTS OFthem also 300'CRASHERS. NOT A H IN THE BUNCH, LOOKED AT 30 OR MORE KITS ON MY TRIP TO SEE MONTY NEVER SAW ONE H from NORTHERN CALIFORNIA TO VICTORIA BC NOT ONE H MONTYS 20 AKIT,EACH AND EVERYONE A 20'H. I ASKED DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING DEEPER HE SAID 1 HEN IN OTHER COUP,NEXT TIME I WILL FLY HER FOR YOU,MONTY ASKED ME WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU LOOKING FOR.
LEFT BC HEADING FOR HOME
judge your birds from side is it a circle, if not, why not,
jim3/22/06
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spinnerdom
45 posts
Mar 22, 2006
11:52 AM
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srry to yell dis machne,dont come off capsters good ,got mind of its owner, i do better yes
a man tony asked am i april fool,not april ,right?
but born in april 1933/23/april,on my computer web site
the motley fool i am a payed up member,my name dunkin clown
but am i a joke,well we shell see
spinner; occupation
dom; sports centre
this is my sport centre,i play for keeps.
believe it .
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
435 posts
Mar 22, 2006
12:57 PM
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Drano goes down the drain, not in your coffee.
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rust never sleeps
36 posts
Mar 22, 2006
2:46 PM
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Jim or what ever your name is you say you had 30' to 60' donuts SPINNERS? lots of them right,your a MENTAL MIDGET! man, you should of stop right there and pick out THOSE 6 birds, RIGHT THERE.The ones You keep on rambling about and bred those to death. YOU JUST RAMBLE BULLSHIT TO GET SOME ATTENTION. RICHARD REYES
Last Edited by rust never sleeps on Mar 23, 2006 2:37 PM
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spinnerdom
47 posts
Mar 22, 2006
4:05 PM
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you made this room for me,
then why do you attack
it sounds to me that you have not seen donuts
or birds 30' to 60'but some in here attack, a 50yr rollerman about his birds. but has at least 2 kits of these.would fly for anyone that would go there.if you judge from up the ars you would never see them,this is why i am here so that people will open there minds and understand the
possibilities.
jim3/22/06 thank you rusty my spelling iss getting better
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
436 posts
Mar 22, 2006
4:19 PM
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Jim, I thought you were 73? Now you are 50?
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knaylor
90 posts
Mar 22, 2006
4:58 PM
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Hey Tony, enough allready you gave him a chance. Who is he so the games can stop.
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rollerpigeon
Site Moderator
445 posts
Mar 22, 2006
5:31 PM
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Hello All, I have requested that Jim call me Thursday and talk about all that is going on as far as his agenda. I want to know where all this is headed before it continues.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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spinnerdom
48 posts
Mar 23, 2006
5:12 AM
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1 the education of styles of the roller
2 the education of the styles of spinners. and wing loading
3 injustice of bad rules,to know goods ones, you will write the best ones for the bird,also move the gene selection forward,not move in reverse,where you are headed since world cup. crankers max 20' tops no quality no future genes,very few fly the genes of 50 yrs a go the genes most be salvaged now. mr pensom put us here,with his almighting h h h s
20 birds can not be judged properly,birds are behind birds, the judges know this,wont admit it.
4 too many markers, 11 not required, 5 are enough, dont require fractions.
5 injustices world cup, some region holding captive, none responsive rds, lds, ghosts kits,world does have rules to correct.
That is enough to start with, Some KNOWLEDGE WILL BRING US OUT OF THE DARK AGES.
Last Edited by spinnerdom on Mar 23, 2006 5:16 AM
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spinnerdom
49 posts
Mar 23, 2006
5:30 AM
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PAGE ONE MR KNAYLER HOPE THIS HELPS. JIM
I DIDNT KNOW I REQUIRED TO BE STRIPPED SEARCHED AT THE BORDER, JUST ANOTHER DUMB CANADIAN EH . JIM
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knaylor
95 posts
Mar 23, 2006
9:02 AM
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Jim, when you com clean and start to make sence I will respond to your W/C statements. until you are a waste of my time. Kevin
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