Velo99
705 posts
Dec 08, 2006
3:00 PM
|
Stan,
Which side would you fall on? The 1/4 or the 3/4?
----------
If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
|
JMUrbon
93 posts
Dec 08, 2006
3:44 PM
|
Stan when was the last time you went around the country and watched all of the kits. Don did a great job this year in judging the kits in the finals and I think he was able to seperate the average from the good just fine. I feel that the judges do the best job that they can at weeding out the top kits and as you well know judging is a very thankless job usually. Joe
|
STARFIRE
65 posts
Dec 08, 2006
10:00 PM
|
Hi Vello 99
I would fall into the 1/4. I was told by a World Fly judge that he would rate my birds in the TOP 30 IN THE WORLD.How do you like them apples.NOW LETS HEAR ALL THE NEGATIVE BULLSHIT YOU GUYS CAN DREAM UP ABOUT THAT.He's the only one in the states that has a pair of my birds.
----------
STARFIRE
Last Edited by on Dec 08, 2006 10:04 PM
|
motherlodelofts
1063 posts
Dec 08, 2006
11:19 PM
|
Your the man Stan !
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2006 1:12 AM
|
JMUrbon
100 posts
Dec 09, 2006
8:42 AM
|
Must be what he used to create these crested modenas I have Stan. All I can say Stan is the world cup is comming your way so put up or shut up. The difference between you and me is you say yours are that good I say look at the standings. Joe Urbon
|
knaylor
335 posts
Dec 09, 2006
8:58 AM
|
Joe, your wasting your time. He doesnt compete because we are all against him and cheat so he will not win.
|
STARFIRE
66 posts
Dec 09, 2006
9:14 AM
|
-------
Hi JUrbon:
Hey I didn't say that .The world fly judge said he would rate my birds in the top 30 in the world.Are you saying now that the W.C. judges they send here dont know what they are talking about and don't know how to judge.He came from Indiana.If thats the case what good is the world fly.
If I could get into the world fly by bypassing the club they have here i would.How come you guys dont believe anything anybody says but were supposed to believe everything you guys say.Here we go with the crests again.I'll tell you the same thing I told Scott==look up MUTATION=and study it hard till it sinks in.
You guys are like a computer whose hard drive is full=you cant take in any new information.
STARFIRE
|
STARFIRE
67 posts
Dec 09, 2006
9:25 AM
|
--hey KNaylor
You hit the nail on the head.you are exactly right.exept i didnt say you guys i said my local club.Tell me something,If the W.C.Fly is to be held on the weekend-Fri-Sat-Sun.can anybody fly their birds on Monday.and put it in as being flown on Sunday?Is that Ok?
STARFIRE
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2006 9:26 AM
|
knaylor
337 posts
Dec 09, 2006
9:37 AM
|
Stan, if things come up then yes you can fly on a tuesday if so be it. How many years ago was this and I am sure you dont even know who the W/C RD is for your region??? Your club should have nothing to do with the w/c. On that judge was he the finals judge or the qualifier judge?? On the mutant once they mutate do they continue to produce mutants?? I am just asking because i dont know.
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2006 9:38 AM
|
STARFIRE
68 posts
Dec 09, 2006
11:02 AM
|
Hi Ken:
If thats ok to fly on another day how come they flew the birds on Monday and put the fly down as being flown on Sunday?and how come when the judge stayed at my place and it was really windy,and I said I was going to fly on Monday ,they said I cant do that.I told them if they can do it so can I.So I flew on the monday and they were very insistent that the fly be dated for Sunday again? And yes the crests will breed crests again.But they are not consistent.Some will be crested to some degree(from a curl on the head going to the right or left or a full blown shell crest or a peak crest)thats with a crest and a plainhead.If I mate two crests together I get a pretty decent crest on some and curl or some other kind of Crest,maybe a half crest on one side.Thats the mutation .The birds are not supossed to have a crest and its always trying to revert back to the plain head .But its interesting breeding them and I have fun with them.
And the good ones are all tight high velocity 30 ft spinners.
STARFIRE
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2006 11:09 AM
|
knaylor
338 posts
Dec 09, 2006
11:25 AM
|
Stan, Im glad you have fun with them. Not sure why they would put sunday on the ticket? In my region wind is not a reason to move the fly day. Now if a big storm was coming in and you had enough notice and all the flyers were ok with it I could see moving the fly back a weekend. Now please tell me more about the judge? I dont remember a finals judge being from Indiana?
|
STARFIRE
69 posts
Dec 09, 2006
1:00 PM
|
--Hi Ken:
That was a long time ago.The judge was Charlie Enochs=he told me he was moving to Kentucky. He stayed the weekend and we talked about the birds.I showed him my records from 1968 on up to the present,and he said you could count the guys that had a line that long on one hand.I put out my kit that wasn't in competition and I said "these are a bunch of my bums"-.He watched them quietly for awhile,then he said Bums?I counted 168 pts. He asked me about my Comp. kit and I told him they were deeper and faster,and bigger breaks He told me if I had these birds in the states ,I wouldnt be able to breed enough to keep up with the demand for them.
STARFIRE
|
knaylor
339 posts
Dec 09, 2006
2:26 PM
|
Chuck, sounds like he really liked your birds. I think you should fly in the w/c again. If you choose not to then that is your choice, but it is unfair to say that they would treat you right since you really dont know. From what you explained they let you fly on Monday because it was windy on Sunday. They also did this to another flyer. Looks like they may have given you both a break. If i recall you have said that the other kit beat your score? Did you witness the kit?
|
STARFIRE
70 posts
Dec 09, 2006
2:58 PM
|
--Hi Ken:
No ,I didn't witness the winning kit.Neither did anybody else.Only the flyer and the judge were there.Thats what made me think it was bogus,Would'nt you?I was told on Sunday that i had won the fly and then they phoned me on Mon.night and said that somebody else won it.One of the guys said that the flyer who won it didn't have a kit worth anything.His first kit was D.Q Nobody said that they were going to fly on the Mon.so I thought it was over.The funny part was that this guy never flew another W.F.to this day.I was told by members of both clubs in my area that nobody want's to compete with me.The secretary of one of the clubs called one time and called me an ASS**** because I had won a fly.Nice Guys
STARFIRE
|
JMUrbon
102 posts
Dec 09, 2006
3:32 PM
|
Hey Stan don't put words in my mouth please. I believe in the WC and its judges 100%. Now that being said I wasn't there to see your kit so I cant say one way or another but I have heard it 1000 time that somebody always thought their kit was better. Hell I have even been the one saying it a time or two but I was always willing to put mine back in there to prove it. Your problems occured quite a while back and most adults learn to let things go after a while. I would be really currious to see what a top notch breeder such as yourself could do in the world cup and or the fall fly. We put our birds up year after year if for no other reason than to see how much they have improved. Lets be honest Stan, Of all of the peaple that enter the FF and the WC there are only a small handful of guys that feel they really have a chance and an even smaller handful that repeat it year after year. Now I am not saying that your birds dont roll and for that matter cant roll with the best of them but for you to make a statement like 3/4 of the kits flown arent even any good is pretty bold. I take my hat off to everyone that puts a kit up for a judge because they are the ones that have made this hobby move forward. Not just you or I. Joe Urbon
Last Edited by on Dec 09, 2006 5:41 PM
|
knaylor
340 posts
Dec 09, 2006
3:36 PM
|
Ok now I am confused?? On a past post you said that you flew on Monday and they wrote the date as Sunday?? Which day did you fly?? I also would not call a score bogus unless I seen it. Another question is that you are telling people on how a judge was bragging on how good your birds are and then you question his integrity?? Also your club has nothing to do with the W/C fly. Find your RD and talk to him that you want to fly. If you are getting a raw deal then talk to the W/C GC.
|
STARFIRE
72 posts
Dec 09, 2006
6:21 PM
|
---hey Ken:
I'm talking about 2 different judges.The story I told was not about Charlie but a fly the year before that one.You wouldn't call a fly bogus with no witnesses?You must be more tolerant than me.The fly was over on the Sunday and he flew on Mon.with only the judge and the flyer.This move kept me out of the finals.This is water under the bridge and it does'nt matter anymore.End of story.
STARFIRE
|
Velo99
709 posts
Dec 10, 2006
6:10 AM
|
Stan,
What year did this occur?
----------
If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
|
STARFIRE
74 posts
Dec 10, 2006
8:57 AM
|
--Hi Vello
It doesnt matter any more.It was along time ago.The only reason I still rember is that they kept me out of the finals and I had a good chance at winning the world Fly.It was won with 288 pts.that year and I had 220 Q 1.5 D 1.6 in 15 min.They said I had an outbird the last five min.It pissed me off because they screwed up the best chance I had for a kick at the can.The guy that beat me out I hear was selling birds and never delivering them.to the tune of about $8000.00.Very honest guy.I had the highest score in the world at the end of my fly at that time.
STARFIRE
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
862 posts
Dec 10, 2006
9:42 AM
|
Stan, go over to the WC site and look at the flyers who won each region, then look at their scores. Then look at the score they got in the finals. YOU CANNOT USE YOUR QUALIFYING SCORE TO COMPARE WITH FINALS SCORES....different judge...different conditions....different day. I see guys blow out 1,000+point kits in the qualifer, get told there is no one out there going to beat that kit. Then come finals time....flunk...couple hundred points at best.
I say stop harpin about dirty oil and show us all how good your birds in the spring. I'll be looking for your name to show up for your region.
Brian.
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2006 9:43 AM
|
STARFIRE
76 posts
Dec 10, 2006
12:05 PM
|
--Hi Brian:
I know what your saying.Those scores in the thousands are just bullshit plain and simple.Guys in one club want to look better than the next club.Some scores in the club where I am are in the 6oo range for the qualifier,the they get 50 around points in the final.My birds are very reliable and consistent.I had a kit a few years ago that would do between 30-35 breaks every day,and I flew them every day.If any of my kits made it to the finals they would score about the same score as they went in.Thats if the weather conditions are about the same.When I fly a competition kit they will score about the maximum they are capable of every day.I don't do anything to peak them I feed them the same every day.By that I mean if I were to judge them on a Sun. say and they scored xx amount.I could judge them again on Wed.And Fri and they would score about the same.I find they perform more on a cloudy day--------
STARFIRE
|
Mongrel Lofts
253 posts
Dec 10, 2006
12:55 PM
|
Starfire,
The more you talk the more I know for a fact,, Your a ROOKIE or a LEGEND in your own mind!! You sound like so many of the Legends I know that think if they don't win, they have been cheated.. When a guy tells me he had the best kit in the world and would have won the WC but he got cheated.. I just put him the Make believe La La land.. If your birds really break 30 to 35 times every time you fly them with depth and speed,, just keep flying in the WC and you will for sure win the WC..Probably several times.. If you don't do that,, then your just a LEGEND in your own mine and want to talk about how great you are without ever having to back up what you say.. SO what will it be,, Put up a kit in the WC and prove your the best in the world, Or keep talking about how great you are, while we all go,, Not again, Another worlds best roller LEGEND,, In his own MIND!! KGB
|
MILO
52 posts
Dec 10, 2006
1:52 PM
|
Stan.
I don't think the secretary of that club called you an Ass**** because you won the fly. JMO.
c
|
STARFIRE
77 posts
Dec 10, 2006
2:53 PM
|
Hey Milo:.
Thats not the way to respond to anybodys thread.It just shows how ignorant you are.I never called any body here any names.Just because you dont have any answers to anything theres no reason to be name calling.Show a little respect.Im an old man and have kept rollers longer than a lot of you have been alive.Just because you dont agree with what I say doesnt give you the right to call me names.You guys never cease to amaze me .You ask me questions about something and when I answer you you want to attack me.This is why the world cup is doomed.All you guys think that everybody else is a liar and bullshiter.I don't lie about anything and if you dont believe what I say,I sure as hell couldnt care less.I've never said anything on this site,about anybody,only to defend myself.
If you dont like what I say dont respond.Then you wouldnt look so stupid.And that includes you KGB.
STARFIRE
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2006 2:56 PM
|
Velo99
712 posts
Dec 10, 2006
3:12 PM
|
Stan,
Same old pile of droppings for the last 4 years I have been here. "I was robbed." "A judge told me twenty five years ago I had the best in the world."
Lots of old men still fly in competetion. C`mon Stan,put em up!
I bet we could get a few guys together and pay your entry fee. I`ll throw in $10.00. I`ll send it straight to your RD, who is .....?
I want to see for myself how good they are. All you gotta do is put em up on fly day.
----------
If they don`t kit,they don`t score.
Color don`t roll and peds don`t fly.
It`s a comp thing,understand?
V99
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2006 3:13 PM
|
JMUrbon
103 posts
Dec 10, 2006
3:32 PM
|
Stan I dont think Milo was calling you an ass*** but rather touching on an earlier post from you that stated that the RD in your area call you an ass**** when you had thought you had won the region and qualified for the finals. I am not going to call you a lier like I stated earlier because I was not there. All I will say is 15 years ago dont mean shit nowdays. Just put the birds up and shut up all of us sceptics. If your kits are as good as you say then we will surely all owe you an apology. But until then please refrain from comparing your score and what one judge told you 15 years ago to the kits flown today. You have more years raising birds than I but that does not constitute a champion. Hard work and determination do and you must also be able to accept defeat and also be willing to give it another try. Joe Urbon
|
MILO
53 posts
Dec 10, 2006
3:45 PM
|
That's funny Stan. You don't even remember what you said in your last post. Take some focus factor there grumpy.
c
|
Mongrel Lofts
254 posts
Dec 10, 2006
4:03 PM
|
STAN,
I'm sorry my last post may seam a bit like an attack.. OK, it was rude. LOL Thing is Stan, being a winner takes a lot of hard work and a willingness to look at things honestly.. I have won flys I didn't think a lot of and I have flat out had good flys that I felt the judge must have been watching another kit.. I don't fly for them, I fly for me.. I enjoy hearing what others see and think about the birds.. I will take constructive criticism and learn from it.. Even when I don't agree with it.. LOL Hear is an example Stan, This last fall fly, just over last month.. In the 20 bird comp, I have what I feel is one of the best deep kits of rollers I have had in a while.. They weren't on the day of the fly for sure, but I felt they scored more than the judge gave me.. When he gave me the score sheet he said,, They scored at least twice what I gave them, maybe more but I couldn't score them.. about that time, I looked down at my score sheet and in big writing he wrote, HAVE TO KIT TO SCORE!!!!!!!!!!!! Now to my way of thinking, a kit breaks 40' to 50' they don't get back to the kit like a 20' kit.. To this judge, they made the kiting sloppy. Stan, I have lots of score sheets, but that one sits in my front room hung on the wall where I have to see it 100 times a day.. Why? Do you have any guesses?
I pulled the not so deep 11 birds from that same team. Rolling from 20 to 30 and scored 233 pts the next morning.. Knowing what this judge scored and why.. Helped.. Stan, when you let what one man or 10 men think about your birds stop you from competing and comparing your birds with the best breeders in the world.. YOU ARE A LOSER and a QUITER.. No one can ever beat a man down unless they consider what others think about them, more important than what they think about themselves.. Same applies to your birds.. The only way you can lose, is if you fly and let others actions be the reason you have quit trying.. I mean this in the best way Stan.. I hope you take it that way.. I hope they are having a competition the day of my funeral.. I will have my wife or kids fly a kit at my funeral and I want them scored!! LOL Stan, the fun and respect doesn't come from winning.. It comes from being willing to play the game, win, lose or draw.. That is what the fly guys mean when they say,, PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!! KGB
|
knaylor
341 posts
Dec 10, 2006
6:46 PM
|
Stanley, water under the bridge?? Then why do you allways bring it up as why you dont fly in the w/c. Also the w/c is doomed??LMAO!!! Also what birds did you cross the yellow crested tumblers on that you had many years ago????
|
W@yne
54 posts
Dec 10, 2006
10:39 PM
|
!!!!Stanley its simple !!!!
Let yer birds do the talking in WC.
Its no good thinking what if.
EITHER PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
regards
W@yne UK
Last Edited by on Dec 10, 2006 10:42 PM
|
STARFIRE
80 posts
Dec 11, 2006
11:19 AM
|
Hi Naylor:
You ask me why bring all this stuff up?Wasn't it you that asked about it?Don't ask me about this crap and I wont talk about it.How long have you kept pigeons?Dont you know that mosiacs wont reproduce mosiacs?The are one in a million.and I have 2 of them,Also Look up the word MUTATION
not cross.thats 2 different things.I don't know how many times I have tell you guys that they weren't crossed with anything.What was that you wrote about mosaics?It couldnt understand what you meant.See, your asking me about the crests so don't be telling me that I brought it up about them.I have records that go back to 1968.The records tell the story.
STARFIRE
|
nicksiders
922 posts
Dec 11, 2006
12:09 PM
|
Moisaics are a mutation as is crests. They both do not reproduce themselfs. To have birds that reproduce crests you have to have a breed cross.....because mutations do not reproduce themselfs. If you are reproducing crests you have had to have a cross..............am I reading this corectly?
----------
Snicker Rollers
|
MCCORMICKLOFTS
865 posts
Dec 11, 2006
1:12 PM
|
Nick, "mosaicism" is the odd genetic "malfunction", not a mutation. It's just one of the strange genetic divisions that happens on occasion.
Crests on the other hand are a simple recessive gene just like the color recessive red is. I've raised some crested Wests in my baldhead patterns which as far as anyone can dig up, haven't had other breeds crossed in. I know of several fanciers who have had the same thing happen with their balds. Obviously we culled them as we didn't want that trait. I can see where someone such as Stan could produce a crested bird from birds and then breed for it. It really is one of the easiest recessive genes to work with once you have it.
In helmets it is very common for our breeders to cross our crested medium face helmets with our plainhead medium face. It is very common for plainhead pairs to produce crested young.
Crest doesn't automatically constitute "cross".
Brian.
|
STARFIRE
81 posts
Dec 11, 2006
1:40 PM
|
-Hey Guys:
Does anybody read the N.B.R.C.book? It doesnt look like it with all the stupid questions and answers about my crests.Look in the 2005 JULY- AUGUST EDITION AND TURN TO PAGE 44.The article explains MUTATION AND CREST.READ IT AND SHUT UP ABOUT THEM.Mutation can breed whatever the mutation is
but mosiacs will not breed mosaics. Nicksiders =you are wrong.
STARFIRE
Last Edited by on Dec 11, 2006 1:44 PM
|
motherlodelofts
1072 posts
Dec 11, 2006
1:44 PM
|
Stan according to Bill Watson out of S. Ca. you aren't telling the truth about those crests and not crossing for it , in fact I just spoke with his yesterday again to make sure I had it straight , he said that " you showed both him and Kumro what you were crossing in for the crests " after he kept calling you on them being obvious crosses with or without crests.
If you like I can give you Bills e-mail to straighten this out , Bill had no reason to bring this up in the first place nor did he even know about this site until I brought it up to him after he told me a story about "some" guy in Ontario .
Mutations are the slight peaks , not the fully developed crests like some of your birds are displaying.
Last Edited by on Dec 11, 2006 5:05 PM
|
STARFIRE
82 posts
Dec 11, 2006
2:14 PM
|
-Hey Scott:
I explained in another post what happened with the fairy tale
you told.I'm not going to repeat it.I know what happened on that day,I was there.If HE told you that HES A BALDFACED LIAR AND HE,S LYING THROUGH HIS TEETH.-Why dont you talk to Ron Kumro and find out the truth. Ron Dont have a dog in the fight,but you do. You never give up spreading your venom.Better still how about somebody else talking to Ron.If you think your going to shut me up,think again.Whats the point of all this bull.You need to get a grip,You've taken it upon yourself to be the savior of the true birmingham roller.Get off your soapbox and get real.
You still dont get it =NOBODY CARES ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK.
ESPECIALLY ME.
STARFIRE
Last Edited by on Dec 11, 2006 2:17 PM
|
nicksiders
924 posts
Dec 11, 2006
2:41 PM
|
Thanks BMC. I was reading all these post and doing a little reading and as you know a little knowledge is dangerous, so I thought I would ask. Appreciated.
Nick
----------
Snicker Rollers
|
nicksiders
925 posts
Dec 11, 2006
2:49 PM
|
Starfire,
I was unsure and that is why I asked the question and Brian helped me with an answer. Sorry if I made my question sound like an indictment....didn't mean too.
Nick
----------
Snicker Rollers
|
motherlodelofts
1073 posts
Dec 11, 2006
5:15 PM
|
On second thought, sorry I brought it up.
Scott
Last Edited by on Dec 11, 2006 6:56 PM
|
knaylor
346 posts
Dec 11, 2006
5:41 PM
|
Yep sure Stanley. There is only one other person that has crested rollers that I know of. He is here in Vallejo Calif. I also know he tells the guys that they were crossed at one time to get the crest. I also know that a few get a top notch every once in a while. Most which go back to the Hilton Blacks wonder why that is???
|
STARFIRE
87 posts
Dec 12, 2006
8:32 AM
|
Hi KNaylor:
You've been telling me about this guy in Cal.that has crested birds for over a year now And you still haven't sent me his E-Mail or told me who he is.Either send me his e=mail or drop it.By writing what you do about these crests you are still infering in a subtle way that my birds were crossed.Dont you get tired of beating a dead horse?Don't you think this subject has run its course.Get over it and drop it.No one cares.
STARFIRE
|
JMUrbon
108 posts
Dec 12, 2006
4:22 PM
|
Stan then what the hell do you care who this guy is if he admits to crosses being used or is it you just want to ask him to shut up or he will spoil your sells. Joe
|
STARFIRE
92 posts
Dec 12, 2006
5:24 PM
|
-Hey joe:
the reason i want to know is because he dont exist.I dont care if he crosses his birds thats his business just dont lump his birds with mine.I don't need to sell birds at all
I only brought up that score of yours because i wanted you to see what its like to be dogged on like me.You did't like it did you.---------
STARFIRE
|
JMUrbon
111 posts
Dec 12, 2006
5:49 PM
|
Stan, You kinda got me at a loss. I didnt fly the nbrc fly in 95.
|
Fr.mike
204 posts
Dec 12, 2006
5:54 PM
|
Ahhhh--come on guys dont stop now !You have almost hit the 200 post mark!I am sure that someone can say something bad about Stan --or Stan can say something bad about someone else.PLEASE--just so we can hit that 200 mark LOL !
Fr. Mike
|
Fr.mike
205 posts
Dec 12, 2006
6:17 PM
|
Come on guys! we only need two or three more good insults or Lies(which ever comes first) to get to the 200 mark. dont quit now!!Lol! (this post does not Qualify.)
Fr. Mike
|
knaylor
348 posts
Dec 12, 2006
7:49 PM
|
He does exsist Stanly have seen plenty of them. I know ther are a couple of guys that have seen them too that read this site!!!!
|
knaylor
349 posts
Dec 12, 2006
7:50 PM
|
Ok lets all take up a collection. Kenny has allready promised #20 and I will match that. Lets pay for Stanleys w/c entry!!
|
STARFIRE
96 posts
Dec 12, 2006
10:06 PM
|
--Hey Ken:
I still dont see his name .What, is it a secret?I'd like to talk to him about them.Does it take over a year to remember his name?
STARFIRE
|
knaylor
352 posts
Dec 12, 2006
10:15 PM
|
Charlie, like I told you I do not know the man personally but have seen his birds. He does not live that far from me and i will get his info. Will you fly in the w/c if we pay your entry fee??? why not?? also get my name right and I will get your right!!
|