gotspin7
263 posts
Oct 17, 2007
4:42 AM
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Marcus, have you bred any champs?
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DeepSpinLofts
178 posts
Oct 17, 2007
4:39 PM
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Hi gotspin7
Now that's a very good question you asked:
====> "Marcus, have you bred any champs?"
I would have to say yes based upon my own personal feelings about the standards I place upon performing roller pigeons and what I've bred & flown over the years. I have no official documented certification with the county registrar or nothing regarding the champion roller.... so you're just going to have to take my word for it.
....however
Don't know much about show rollers and what a champion show roller should be like.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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gotspin7
273 posts
Oct 18, 2007
5:08 AM
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Marcus, question were does the show roller come in to my simple question?
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DeepSpinLofts
179 posts
Oct 18, 2007
6:09 AM
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Good morning gotspin7....
The show roller issue wasn't aimed necessarily at you. I know there are other people around here and some of them may be involved with showing their performing roller pigeons in competitions.... so I threw that in.
I was at a friends Pigeon shop several years ago in Southern California and there were dozens of people with what I assume were good performing rollers. Several folks in attendance were show-casing (displaying) their prize pigeons and competing for trophies & stuff.
NOTE: At the end of the show there was a Champion, 2nd place winner, 3rd place winner, best old cock, best young hen ...etc. What I'm trying to say is that I don't know how they actually score the birds at a show. I'm thinking that the quality of genetic breeding from various body types, colors+patterns is what the judges evaluate at these bird shows.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Dec 17, 2007 3:01 AM
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DeepSpinLofts
242 posts
Jan 29, 2008
5:00 PM
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Allow me to reiterate:
===> "Breed Best to Best"!
A fast, tight spinner of say 15ft to 25ft showing that sweet donut hole to a Deep Roller of roughly (25ft to 60ft) with exceptional control & kitting abilities is how I would do it.
IMO it's probably the best way to get your hands on a champion rolling pigeon that everyone will admire watching in the air.
Frankly speaking.... I don't think anyone out there is willing to sell a champion rolling pigeon for less than a couple of hundred bucks. Now, I could be wrong though.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Jan 29, 2008 5:02 PM
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DeepSpinLofts
367 posts
Mar 07, 2008
1:51 AM
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I have a question only for the serious breeders/trainers/flyers of Birmingham Roller pigeons around here.
TWO QUESTIONS:
1) Are there any certified champion aerial performers still alive?
...if so
2) Who has this champion and what is the age and band number?
Just curious... that's all.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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elopez
732 posts
Mar 07, 2008
9:56 AM
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I have a Certified Spinner that was breed by Keith London.
It was certified by Juan Navarro, Kevin McCray, and Rayvon Hall as a Spinner.
Band # WSRC 1999 915 - Red Check Self
Here's a pic for those who haven't seen him.
I haven't been fortunate enough to keep his birds in the air, but Keith breed a few and boy can they spin. Keith has some stock off of him.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
Last Edited by on Mar 07, 2008 9:56 AM
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quickspin
423 posts
Mar 07, 2008
11:08 AM
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Efren,
You should not even try in flying that bird any more. How it's right now with the bop just breed him the most you can with the best hen you have.
Then you can give me one of the offspring. LOL
I also had a Certified Spinner that was bred by my friend Jay Moreno in long Beach. This was Certifed by
Doug Brown
Randy Gibson Last name might be wrong.
Jay Brooks
NBRC 95 225 Red Check
I still have his father that is a 93 Smith bird.
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SALAS LOFT
Last Edited by on Mar 17, 2008 11:09 AM
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elopez
735 posts
Mar 07, 2008
3:50 PM
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Rolando,
I don't fly my breeders. Keith had him breeding and I got it as a breeder to have as a breeder.
As bad as it is, I can hardly fly a kit bird with all the bop's.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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elopez
736 posts
Mar 07, 2008
3:50 PM
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Sure we could swap some offsprings and fly them...
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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DeepSpinLofts
368 posts
Mar 08, 2008
1:12 AM
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Efren, I really like the look of WSRC 1999 #915 - Red Check Self bred by Keith. My foundation hen is a redchecker that looks very similar to him.
....as a matter of fact
WH Pensom dsistinctly says:
"The best birds come 1st in red check and dun, the most regular performers and mixtures of these colors,
2nd in blue check, the most stable,
3rd in black,
4th in tortoiseshell,
5th in dun bred reds, and so on."
....also
"The pale colored birds should be mated to the darker, stronger colors. A light grizzle could be mated to a red check or dun; blue bar or pale blue to a black; tortoiseshells and light blue grizzle go with any color. Blue checks go with red checks and duns WHEN there is a loss in stability in the red checks and duns. Always mate pale or soft to the hard or dark colors."
{P.S.} I'm sure when Pensom done his matings according to these color lines there was still a strong emphasis placed on aerial performance standards.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Mar 08, 2008 1:14 AM
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DeepSpinLofts
392 posts
Mar 11, 2008
8:54 PM
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Hey Efren.... your roller WSRC 1999 #915 - Red Check Self looks quite similar to a '05 Plona Redcheck Cock NBRC F1952 that I have here at Deep Spin Lofts.
QUESTION: What's the background (lineage) on your WSRC 1999 #915 Red Check Self?
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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elopez
775 posts
Mar 12, 2008
12:35 AM
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Hey Marcus,
It's Smoke with some Jac and Reed. I'll post the pedigree shortly.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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elopez
778 posts
Mar 12, 2008
11:11 AM
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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DeepSpinLofts
406 posts
Mar 13, 2008
10:33 PM
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Thanks for the pedigree sheet Efren.
I can use it for bio-genetic research purposes.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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Missouri-Flyer
1495 posts
Mar 14, 2008
6:37 AM
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whats it take to certify a bird?
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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elopez
782 posts
Mar 14, 2008
4:11 PM
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Hello Jerry,
Here is a message on this bird's certification from the breeder Keith London.
:Thor, the certified cock bird that Gomez commented on was bred in 1999 and was certified in 2001. He flew three seasons but was 2yrs old when certified. AT that time I didn't lock down for the bops. I flew all year long. He was a R.O.M. COCK in my loft.
smoke747
The bird was flown for 3 seasons and was watched but other club members and on the 3rd season was certified as a spinner by Kevin McCray, Juan Navarro, and Rayvon Hall. All recognized breeders.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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Missouri-Flyer
1497 posts
Mar 14, 2008
5:56 PM
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Thanks Efren.
BUT, what does it take to have it certified?..Fly 3 seasons?..Is it actually performance based, or how many seasons it flies?
My thoughts were that a "certified" bird is one that proved itself in the air by showing qualities that make it the cream of the crop.
I guess I am lost on what a certified roller is.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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elopez
783 posts
Mar 14, 2008
6:17 PM
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Jerry,
Sorry thought that went without saying. Yes, he was the cream of the crop all seasons. Don't thing breeders like the ones mentioned would have certified a bird that was not a top performer. Not only has this bird proven himself in the air but also in the Breeding loft, as Keith mentioned he is a Register of Merit, (when a bird can produce champions) as he has done time after time for Keith.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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Missouri-Flyer
1501 posts
Mar 14, 2008
6:35 PM
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Thanks again Efren,
So is the bird judged by performance as in how deep, how tight, how fast, etc.?
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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elopez
784 posts
Mar 14, 2008
7:42 PM
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You'll have to ask Keith (Smoke747) as he breed and flew him, Or I'll give him a call to get the details as he hasn't fixed his computer issues.
When I got him, I got him for his breeding capabilities as I seen birds directly off of him spin with high velocity, 30-40', tight roll, and worked with the kit.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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Missouri-Flyer
1504 posts
Mar 15, 2008
4:40 AM
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Thanks Efren,
I am not asking these questions to doubt your bird, or am I asking in regards to your bird alone. I see birds that are certified, and wonder " what did the bird have to do to get certified "?
There are probably others here that would like the answer also, as to what a roller has to do in the AIR to become certified.
Ask Keith if there is some type of rules and standards that the judges judging the bird has to follow, or if they just go by instinct.
Just curious, as we dont see many people talk about certified rollers.
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Jerry
Home of "Whispering Wings Loft"
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DeepSpinLofts
413 posts
Mar 15, 2008
5:42 AM
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Good morning Efren....
You said:
======> "I seen birds directly off of him spin with high velocity, 30-40', tight roll, and worked with the kit."
QUESTION: You are referring to birds sired by WSRC 1999 #915 - Red Check Self... am I correct?
I'm trying to stay focused on the goal of breeding champion rolling pigeons and I think I might be on to something here..
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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elopez
800 posts
Mar 15, 2008
6:32 AM
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No worries Jerry. I'll ask Keith.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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elopez
801 posts
Mar 15, 2008
6:32 AM
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Marcus,
Yes WSRC 99 915.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
Last Edited by on Mar 15, 2008 6:32 AM
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DeepSpinLofts
419 posts
Mar 17, 2008
2:18 AM
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So Efren....
How is WSRC 1999 #915 - Red Check Self doing these days?
Are you breeding him at the moment? He sitting on eggs or does he have squeeks?
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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elopez
822 posts
Mar 17, 2008
10:35 AM
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Marcus,
Kind of a sour subject...lol
I had him down on a young hen (599 full sister Weapon Cock) but he missed in two rounds. So I broke them up and gave him some of Keith's famous pills and put him down on my Weapon Hen (daughter to CPRC 100 96). I'm keeping my fingers crossed for some fertile eggs.
I should know in about 2 weeks...
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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DeepSpinLofts
421 posts
Mar 17, 2008
3:35 PM
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Efren...
Oh my goodnes! What's this I hear.
Is WSRC 1999 #915 - Red Check Self Cock joy-stick going limp on us? Can't do the wild thing ehh....
Looks like he getting old.
he...he...he...
Hey, I had something I wanted to ask you.
Do you have any birds in your breeding pen from Juan? If so.. how are they producing for you?
Just curious that's all. I'm way up here in Northern California and I don't have the luxury of being able to drop by you fellas home every other weekend to check out rolling pigeons.
Ahh yes... you folks down there in sunny Southern California are in roller pigeon heaven! I don't think anywhere in the world are there so many roller fanciers as there are in the Southern California area.
Holla....
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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elopez
824 posts
Mar 17, 2008
4:01 PM
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Hey Marcus,
Don't go spreading this around, don't think 915 wants all the hens knowing...lol
I'm hoping it was nothing and crossing my fingers on some fertile eggs. He's only 8 yrs old - I have some 15 yrs old still hitting.
I don't have anything directly from Juan but Keith did a couple of matings with him as I see Juan's name on a pedigree or two.
Rolando (Quickspin) has a lot of Juan Navarro birds as well as some of the Fresno guys (Sidlove, Dave, Joe Emberton) They would tell you best how these birds work. I here they're the good stuff.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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DeepSpinLofts
422 posts
Mar 18, 2008
5:41 AM
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Good morning Efren....
Now you gotta be kidding. 15 Years old and still hitting it?
That's like an 88 year old man doing the wild thing (pigeon style that is) he....he....he.....
Maybe he do need to get a piece of that weapon hen (daughter to CPRC 100 96). That just might get WSRC 1999 #915 - Red Check Self Cock back on track.
TWO QUESTIONS:
1) How long (how many years) have you been breeding this family of birds?
...and
2) How long do your birds actually live?
Hmm...
Thinkin one day I might need some of Keiths famous pills too.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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kcfirl
374 posts
Mar 18, 2008
9:22 AM
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Marcus,
there are at least 30 guys within 1.5 hours of you that fly in all the big flies and of those at least 20 fly in local flies too. Yet we have never seen you at any of the flies locally.
I myself have 2 Juan Navarro derived birds, through Joe Emberton in my A team.
We have another local fly in Sacramento area starting in woodland this Saturday and fly the WC on April 18/19/20.
Please let me know if you are interested in attending.
Ken Firl
PS. We had > 100 roller guys at the show we had in February and Joe Houghton judging - the guy whose birds were the foundation for the Jaconnett strain and the Kumro birds. Ya gotta get out more buddy.
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DeepSpinLofts
423 posts
Mar 21, 2008
2:43 AM
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Good morning Ken....
I think you mean I need to get around to the flies more. I'm out every day jogging or going to the gym, working with my birds, coaching kids to run track... and doing community work with my wife.
...however
I haven't traveled out of the Bay Area region in a while due to financial obligations and committments to build my business. My goal is to never allow my expenditures to exceed my revenue stream (cash-flow).
QUESTION: Have you noticed the price of gas at the pump lately?
High fuel prices at the pump is the #1 reason why I don't travel out of the Bay Area region at the moment. Not going to spend all my hard earned $$$$$ on fossil-fuels.
{P.S.} So how are those Navarro birds working out for you Ken?
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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kcfirl
384 posts
Mar 21, 2008
4:58 PM
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Marcus,
I know what you mean about the price of gas and the economy. I Was laid off for 9 months last year and it was a real financial and emotional drain on the family and I.
The Joe Emberton birds I received from him to fly in the futurity are very nice, early developers. albeit smaller on average than my family.
I received 5 initially and lost 3 the first day I let them out last July - to a coopers chasing them off. I still have 2 and both have been in my A team. Recently one was demoted because she got a bit light and was chased by a coopers on a windy day last week. I'm feeding her up and will refly her again tomorrow.
Hope to see you some day soon.
Regards,
Ken Firl
Regards,
Ken
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DeepSpinLofts
484 posts
Mar 29, 2008
4:17 PM
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Hi Ken.....
Price of gas was $3.65/gal for unleaded in Benecia. Was driving across the Suisun Bay yesterday and realized I needed fuel... so I stopped into town and was hit hard in the wallet!
NOTE: Only half a tank of fossil fuel for $45.00 (cash).
Whoooaaa.....
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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elopez
892 posts
Mar 29, 2008
7:33 PM
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Not sure what the per gal was but $110 to fill it up for me on my truck and $90 on my wife's SUV. Makes you think about just driving around...
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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DeepSpinLofts
489 posts
Mar 29, 2008
7:50 PM
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Thinking about buying myself a solar-powered car called the Venturi Astro-lab. Runs on energy from the sun captured in its photovoltaic cells.
Click on photo for larger image
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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DeepSpinLofts
523 posts
Apr 06, 2008
7:38 AM
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How can we determine if we actually have a Champion Rolling Pigeon?
Any thoughts?
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Apr 06, 2008 12:06 PM
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Scott
339 posts
Apr 06, 2008
9:28 AM
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(How can we dtermine if we actually have a Champion Rolling Pigeon?
Any thoughts? )
I never even think about it or use that term, in fact the only place I hear it is here and in books,and those that use it tend to throw it around rather loosly.
Some birds are just much better than others , and once in a while you get one that stands above the rest.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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DeepSpinLofts
525 posts
Apr 06, 2008
1:40 PM
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To be honest with you Birdman.... I feel a champion performing roller pigeon is one that spins in the air with high velocity (an incredible amount of speed), rather smoothly and with bold confidence say roughly 20ft+ or more. This bird will never, ever, ever stray from the kit.
....and
After breaking.... it will majestically return to the kit in a heartbeat.
Keep in mind that champion rollers will never roll down to the ground or hit something. You will often see a champion performer with the innate ability to roll multiple depths and quite frequent (which we all eagerly like to see).
Hmm....
Over the years I've noticed that champions appear to enjoy the spectacular feat of rolling. We never have to worry about champions getting lost in overflies because they rarely go out of our aerial view and have superb homing instincts.
Basic Characteristics of a Champion Performing Roller:
1. The ability to roll multiple depths (The ability to flip or short roll when close to the ground and deep when at a safe altitude).
2. The ability to spin fast and tight with good style.
3. Great homing instincts
4. Flying the correct height
5. Splendid kitting abilities
6. Stability (no rolldowns)
7. Frequency of roll (once or twice a minute)
Think that just about sums it up.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Apr 06, 2008 1:40 PM
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birdman
529 posts
Apr 06, 2008
4:03 PM
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Marcus,
what you describe is what I would consider a very good 'A' team bird but not a 'champion'. Definitely a keeper though!
That's a hard one to answer but a 'champion' would have to be the best there is. Better than ALL the other high caliber birds. Better than all of your friends birds. And also a high % PRODUCER of exceptional birds.
In my loft I have my favorite performers and producers but I won't call them champions. I prefer to call them my #1 bird or #2 bird, etc... I know which ones I would grab if there was a fire or something, but to deserve the title of champion would be like Scott said, throwing the term around loosely.
I think what it boils down to is how high are a breeders standards?..... Or how low?
Just my .02
Russ
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DeepSpinLofts
531 posts
Apr 07, 2008
7:31 PM
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Russ... so you think my description sounds like a good bird on a A team ehhh...
Okay. Sounds like you make a valid point there.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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PR_rollers
855 posts
Apr 07, 2008
9:20 PM
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Marcus,how are you doing Champ..I see you still around knowing when your wife call you the day she arrived from PR you was still on the computer..lol..lucky man just like our rollers that get away from the BOP lucky,,,,
Thanks for posting the excerpts from Hans Roettenbacher .reading those writings helps sharpen my tools again..----------
Ralph....
Last Edited by on Mar 30, 2009 11:01 AM
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DeepSpinLofts
534 posts
Apr 08, 2008
4:48 AM
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Good morning Ralph it's really great to hear from you!
Hope all is well with you and your loved ones.
Hmm.... let's see here.
It's 4:46 a.m. (PST) and I'm headed out back to my barn to check on the thoroughbreds (rolling pigeons) he....he....he
No but serious, I'm getting ready to go check on my birds. I get up early in the morning every day. As a matter of fact it has been said by family and friends that I am the one that wake up the roosters in the a.m. so that they can start cockle-doodle-dooing before dawn in order to wake up those who are still asleep. Now isn't that something to really think about.
In regards to Hans Roettenbacher, he was a dedicated roller man that desired nothing more than maintaining those key qualities required to have outstanding aerial performers. His breeding program was meticulous with only the best rollers utilized for stock. With that being said, Roettenbachers birds proved themselves in the air.... over and over again.
Honestly, I am truly inspired by Mr. Roettenbacher works and accomplishments. I have set forth on a tedious mission to do all I can to achieve greatness in the sport.... and if possibly... try and take it to another level.
Hey Ralph... the weather in the Suisun Valley where I live is predicted to be a high of 64 degrees and partly cloudy, so I think I'lll release some young birds in about 2 hours. Here at Deep Spin Lofts we run a tight ship. Only those Birmingham Rolling pigeons with the character, style and performance that are desired will be allowed the marvelous privilege to live in this wonderful atmosphere of bird husbandry. All the rest must go!
Take care...
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
Last Edited by on Apr 08, 2008 7:31 AM
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DeepSpinLofts
804 posts
May 26, 2008
9:39 PM
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Any of you 2008 W/C flyers out there putting up any certified spinners this year in competition?
Just wondering.....
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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quickspin
651 posts
May 27, 2008
8:25 PM
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Here is the picture that some one was looking for the guy in the center with the smile.
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SALAS LOFT
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DeepSpinLofts
810 posts
May 28, 2008
2:26 AM
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Good morning quickspin.
QUESTION: Who is the guy in the center with the smile?
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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DeepSpinLofts
963 posts
Jul 10, 2008
1:11 PM
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Many of you like myself, breed strictly for performance and find color a secondary... if not... a rather minor issue.
....so
I've clipped an excerpt from an NBRC article printed in July of 2000 of a great flyer who breeds strictly for performance. Below are his comments regarding certain aspects we need to observe in rolling pigeons.
His name is ===> Ken Easley.
==============================================
==============================================
The Champion Sent to the NBRC 7/25/00
By: Ken Easley
The true champion is hard to produce but never hard to recognize. We may think we have one coming along but time usually paints a different picture. Most of us are able to produce pretty darn good rollers along the way. Some of these are very nice but disappointment usually comes, due to them doing something to let us down. At times I am sure we have all thought maybe this is as good as they get. Maybe our expectations are just too high. If one keeps trying to improve his stud slowly and carefully the results will follow. The addition of a key bird here and there may be required.
At some point we will become more impressed but still not completely satisfied. Then it happens, we will raise a bird that is outstanding. He will be head and shoulders above the rest. With patience and proper use of the champion several outstanding birds from this line will be the foundation for an outstanding family of rollers. These birds will not roll down to the ground or ever hit anything. Some of them will be able to roll different depths, which we very much like to see. These types seem to enjoy rolling. We won’t have trouble with them getting lost in overflies because they rarely go out of site and have excellent homing instincts. For those who may be at an impasse. They can get as good as we make them through proper matings.
It will be noticed that some birds will be very balanced and typy but lack the mental aspect required for outstanding performance. Another problem encountered when searching for the champion is the occasional bird that is fairly balanced and rolls to a decent degree and has shown itself to be stable but lacks the perfect body for high speed. To make things even more complicated, there are birds that are typy, balanced, stable and have outstanding speed but must be starved down to keep them in viewing distance or they won’t reproduce themselves.
This is the reason that so very few true champions are raised. The true champion is outstanding in every regard. All performance aspects of the roller are a balancing act between the body type and mental type. To produce good rollers we need the correct mental type as well as the correct body type. These types may not be identical in every bird. The mental strength or propensity to roll must be in correct proportions to the physical strength of the bird.
==============================================
==============================================
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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CVRC
234 posts
Jul 10, 2008
1:20 PM
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Very good post marcus....
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Cristian Castro
CM Loft
CVR
WWW.COACHELLAVALLEYROLLERS.COM
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DeepSpinLofts
964 posts
Jul 10, 2008
4:46 PM
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Greetings Cristian.... it's great to hear from you!
Always remember:
====> "Knowledge is Power".
...and
The more you know the more your game can grow.
Marcus
Deep Spin Lofts
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7001
52 posts
Jul 10, 2008
7:28 PM
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marcus how are your 514 birds in
the roll
body type
feather quality
I also work with a line that is 5 generations away from the 514 hen, coming from Pensom to Bob Scott and Charlie Saldana. The roll is very tight and fastalso real tight
knitted gene pool.
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