spinner jim
106 posts
May 20, 2007
2:19 PM
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Steady George, take another tablet and calm down lol,this is how it is-----i have bred rollers (steve calls them tumblers lol) 40 years and never have i seen a performance as suggested by the 46 in 20, i have seen many brilliant kits over the years ,enjoyed it got the tea-shirt its no good for the sport if over marking occurs the judging has to be fair and true to all flyers,its been suggested the judges are inconsistent on your side of the pond,something needs to be done about it,over here they tend to air on the tight side when judging competitions,but its fairer that way ,you say its easy for me to talk this way considering the distance between us,if i have upset you i apologise whole heartedly i was just voicing my opinion,but i would still voice my opinion face to face with you in person thats the way i am,i will defend this hobby as long as i can, jim uk,
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W@yne
434 posts
May 20, 2007
2:20 PM
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Scott
So if 10 birds break and only five spin correct then the break shoudnt be counted ?
george
The break should be counted at 5 birds break George.
Regards
W@yne uk
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Patience Perseverance Perfection
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spinner jim
107 posts
May 20, 2007
2:26 PM
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Steve dont kick the badges and mags,you cant rate my birds you havent seen em,they might just suprise you ??,i dont slate your birds because i know nothing about them,keep the fight clean we are six nil up at the moment lol,jim.
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George Ruiz
281 posts
May 20, 2007
2:28 PM
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jim
Glad to hear you call youself a man and not a mouse.
It's just when someone talks shit from a distance without being provoked ,I start thinking they are pussy's.
Anyway no offence taken on this side .
george
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motherlodelofts
1790 posts
May 20, 2007
2:28 PM
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Scott
So if 10 birds break and only five spin correct then the break shoudnt be counted ?
george
That should be a 5 bird break.
Scott
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spinner jim
108 posts
May 20, 2007
2:31 PM
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Enjoying this post guys,i will soon have my cap lol,George its better to all talk about these things,we can iron out the rough bits together lol,jim uk.
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motherlodelofts
1791 posts
May 20, 2007
2:32 PM
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Are all the breaks perfect, no but you still must give roll when 5 or more birds roll more the 10ft
George
George that's so so wrong and this is the difference between UK
and most USA judges note i said 'MOST' the reason why i said most is because i know you guys have got some great judges. If a break doesn't resemble a break in quality why mark it as a break. If a pigeon doesn't ball up tight it ain't counted and that's that. I think this is where the difference is we are talking about. I know that a kit flying for twenty minutes rolling at more than 2 a minute and getting breaks in the region of 5 to 10 will deteriorate in quality over the fly time. Any experienced flyer knows this. It aint rocket science.
Regards
W@yne uk
Patience Perseverance Perfection
Wayne , the problem goes beyond just quality , in many cases some are just counting birds that roll within 3 sec or so and calling them breaks.
Scott
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motherlodelofts
1792 posts
May 20, 2007
2:36 PM
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Wayne
let me clarify if the birds break and at least 5 or more are clean then they should be scored .
I am not talking about scoring twizzlers or anything that moves .
Thanks George
Only clean birds that are popping together should be scored George , a decent judge will deduct the rest out of the break.
Scott
Scott
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motherlodelofts
1793 posts
May 20, 2007
2:38 PM
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It's just when someone talks shit from a distance without being provoked ,I start thinking they are pussy's.
Anyway no offence taken on this side .
george
George , the proper term towards them would be "twats" now that they understand LOL
Scott
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spinner jim
109 posts
May 20, 2007
2:46 PM
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Scott,we post on here as experienced flyers/breeders we dont intentionally wind up fellow enthusiasts,we enjoy the banter and differences of opinion if we step out of line you tell us and we will apologise,but the word TWATS i find offensive ,its not a word i find time for,call us anything but not that ??, jim.
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motherlodelofts
1794 posts
May 20, 2007
2:51 PM
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Jim it was a joke, sorry.
Scott
PS Wayne is still a twat LOL
Last Edited by on May 20, 2007 2:54 PM
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W@yne
435 posts
May 20, 2007
2:52 PM
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Wayne , the problem goes beyond just quality , in many cases some are just counting birds that roll within 3 sec or so and calling them breaks.
Scotty
water falling will never be counted over here i think you know that Scotty. In WC you go by the half second rule. If anyone reading these posts tonight and have learned something by them it can only be good. Scotty i think youve got a hard job over there buddy because you seem to be one of the minority not the majority of flyers that seem to fully understand how things work. Like i said before i ain't here to argue with fellow flyers just to try to educate newbies to realize what a judge needs to look for in a good kit of birds. Anyway bedtime for me guys good night to you all.
Regards
W@yne uk
Scott I am a Tw-t at times yer right Lol
Jim cant you take a joke Lol Ive been called much worse
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Patience Perseverance Perfection
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Last Edited by on May 20, 2007 2:56 PM
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motherlodelofts
1795 posts
May 20, 2007
3:01 PM
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The 1/2 sec rule is from the first bird in the break to the last bird in the break.
I can't measure that and in my mind it is instantanious , keep in mind on this forum most are new flyers with little experiance , we do have some good judges here also I might add.
Scott
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nicksiders
1706 posts
May 20, 2007
3:20 PM
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uh..........stepping back to a point in this thread before the salvos were fired: I agree with Monson and Scott. We need to train the flyers first and then these trained flyers will make better judges when called upon.
I am going to talk in meta4s here. I once refereed basketball games and football games (not soccer - real football). It was very easy refereeing well coached and winning teams, but it was total hell refereeing shitty losing teams especially if both teams were not coached well. Lets work on the flyers.
How did you like the way I spelled "metaphor"?
I have been in (and out) roller pigeons for more than 50 years and I do not have any Master Flyer Points. I don't know how to get them. I am going to go ahead and award myself with 719 points because I just like the number. I once lead the conference in batting with a 419 BA so I like a series of numbers that end in 19. The day be4 I die I am going to give myself 1000 points and that will also qualify me as a Master Bater.
How did you like the way I spelled "before"?
Weird, ain't it?
Should "bater" be spelled "baiter"?
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
Last Edited by on May 20, 2007 6:11 PM
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kcfirl
108 posts
May 20, 2007
4:11 PM
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Guys and Wayne,
would you say Heine Bijker judges properly? In the English manner?
The last 2 champions he judged in the WC finals he scored 36 and 30 breaks.
Wayne you said you never sawe a kit get to half of 46 - that would be more than 23 breaks correct?
Now we have a South African WC finals judge who, I assume, judges similarly to the English style, score 15 breaks in the FIRST 5 MINUTES of the fly! If the birds kept up the work rate, that would be 60 breaks in 20 minutes!
(I think the Higgins birds those guys imported a few years ago are starting to take effect!)
I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that these kits are much better than anything I've ever seen.
Don't knock it if you didn't see it.
Firl
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JMUrbon
258 posts
May 20, 2007
5:04 PM
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Guys, Judging is always going to be all over the board as long as there is different judges for different regions. As far as the 40+ breaks. BS. I dont think for one minute that a kit of solid spinners with any sort of depth to them could sustain that sort of punishment being put on their bodies. There are far to many kits out there that were put together for their action and not their Q and D. You show me a kit of 25-30 footers that can roll 2 times a minute for 20 minutes and I will eat crow but until then I will continue to call it BS. That to me is the main reason alot of these ( I will call them action judges) for lack of a better term get called back each year.Some guys seem to think it makes their kits or their regions look better because a judge calls every thing that moves as a break when in reality to the truely hardcore fliers it always spells out the same BS. For the most part I have always felt that the finals was always won by the better kits of birds but looking at the scores this year and the multipliers that have gone along with them I feel it may not be so this year. 15 breaks in 5 minutes and still be able to come up with a 1.5Q and a 1.5D is awfully hard to imagine. JMHO though. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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motherlodelofts
1798 posts
May 20, 2007
6:12 PM
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Paul who are you thinking of judging the F.F. ? I hope that you have a qaulity judge in mind
Scott
Last Edited by on May 20, 2007 6:28 PM
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JMUrbon
259 posts
May 20, 2007
6:22 PM
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Point taken Paul but until I witness it I will still call it BS. I didnt mention anything about amount of time with birds because I too have seen beginners get a good score on any given day. Also the kit that I am referring to in the finals has 15 breaks in the first 5 minutes and 7 of them are more than 14 birds. Couple that with a 1.5Q and a 1.5D and it doesnt look good to me.I would also like to point out that usually when you see a region with out of this world scores it isnt just one guy getting them it is all elevated throughout the region and not once have I seen even close to the same output on the finals. Now that being said I know that no two flies will be the same but I generally dont look at the scores as much as I do the Q and D and when they are all very high for the prelims and then fall off the board for the finals then there was something wrong. Birds frequency can vary tremendously from fly to fly but Q and D generally doesnt vary nearly as much from fly to fly.( Speaking of old birds mainly).I am saying this because I too have studied these birds for many years and have put nothing in front of quality. Ever. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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fhtfire
970 posts
May 20, 2007
6:27 PM
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Scott,
What do I have to learn///teach me....what did I explain in my post that was so out of the question that it could not happen....I agree with both sides....that it is rare..but not impossible....what is there to learn from what I posted...I am being serious...what do I have to learn....I said it is rare...I said that I did not think a kit of real deep roller could do it...but a kit of popcorn...or short rollers could do the 46 breaks....the first post said nothing of depth and quality...so that tells me...min of 10' and just enough quality to get the break counted....46 times...throw in deep birds and I can't see it happen...that is why I did not argue with joes post...his last post said that 25-35' birds could keep that pace..that I agree with...but I am only answering the question...46 breaks...not 46 deep breaks....46 10 bird breaks...get my point...I am looking at it from the minimum stand point and the old timers are picturing the perfect depth/quality kit doing it and saying no way...that is true...but the min kit could do it right...you know the popcorn kit..little break...little depth and ok quality.
Anyway...tell me what you are talking about when you say...I need to learn...what part did you not agree with.
As far as the judge for the Fall Fly...I want the judge that scores teh 46 breaks...LOL>>.just kidding....I was going to send an e-amil to our region and have people fire some names to me...and then go from there....I want what the region wants overall.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
971 posts
May 20, 2007
6:28 PM
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Becuase I am learning just by you telling me I need to learn...LOL
rock and ROLL
Paul
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motherlodelofts
1799 posts
May 20, 2007
6:34 PM
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Actualy paul I pulled that first sentence off (was to late though LOL) , didnt want to sound like a jerk and needed to be more tactful, just keep in mind what me and Joe (and others) and realize that there is a reason for it and hopefully you stand back and look at it as time goes on.
Scott
PS you are doing real good, but there is more !
Last Edited by on May 20, 2007 6:36 PM
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fhtfire
972 posts
May 20, 2007
6:36 PM
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Joe,
I agree with you...on the 1.5D 1.5 Q.. I think it would be real hard for a kit to get that and hold it together....I was just answering the question and it just said breaks....nothing about Q Ans D...I know exactly what you. Scott and the UK boys were thinking....I was thinking the same...picture a nice deep kit of rollers getting huge breaks and huge depth and huge quality getting 46 breaks....then I started thinking at just the possibility of getting 46 breaks...and using the min standard..I thought hell yes....but again..I am playing devils advocate...trying to pump out the info from the seasoned guys that aren't full of shit..LOL...anyway....so using the min..I think you got my point...and you know as well as I know..that a good kit of rollers is more then just the breaks...and every year we have the debate..because of the super high scores and then those scores go way down when the same judge is judging....
As for a particular score....with the big breaks...high Q and D...do I believe it...I would have to see it in person...but just answering the question of 46 breaks...you got my point. I have seen your birds and I know that Quality is top with your birds....that is why you as well as grumpy old scott and another select few....are my mentors and ones I listen to...or use your birds as my standard...respect is earned not given...and you and Scott have my respect...seen your birds...you two are both Pricks...but have good birds...Just kidding...LOL
rock and ROLL
Paul
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JMUrbon
260 posts
May 20, 2007
6:37 PM
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Paul, You are correct in saying that it is possible but highly unlikely. However I personally dont want to call a kit of 10 footers with ok qualty the WC champion. If that is what we have to look forward to than this hobby has really taken a step backwards. Now I know that is not what you are advocating but as long as these ( action jugdes) keep putting kits in the finals eventually one of them will be asked to judge the finals and they will pick the same type kit and to me that will be a sad day.I guess I just want to see the best birds win and with that sort of judging it very well may be the worst kit that wins.Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
Last Edited by on May 20, 2007 6:41 PM
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motherlodelofts
1800 posts
May 20, 2007
6:38 PM
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My wife says the same (real prick) LOL
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fhtfire
973 posts
May 20, 2007
6:42 PM
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Scott,
like I said before...I was playing devil's advocate....Trust me...I have been sponging all the info from you and Joe over the years....and your guys birds are the standard that I measure my birds too....anyway...enogh with the mushy stuff...again...I was just looking at it from the minimal standard and just thinking breaks and that is it...I know what you and Joe were thinking....you sat back in your chairs and pictured a nice deep fast hard working kit with excellent quality and then you thought...46 breaks...and you were picturing a nice 14 bird break with seperation and those bottom birds working there ass off to get back to the kit after the perfect DEEP roll and you know the core of birds are usually the ones that do it hte most and they are at the 15 minute mark and are starting to fade and shorten up from working so hard...then you think...HELL no can a kit of birds with DEPTH and QUALITY and LARGE breaks keep that work pace....with the core birds doing most of the work...I agree....with that....Again..I was thinking minimum standards..that a top notch kit...and I was thinking just breaks and nothing else
rock and ROLL
Paul
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fhtfire
974 posts
May 20, 2007
6:48 PM
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Joe,
WE have talked about that in person and I totally agree...but it seams to always work out in the end when the judge comes through and judges all the kits....all of a sudden the huge amount of big scores...comes back down to reality...but I think that the judges that have the most respect are the ones that judge the big flies....you also see that the good judges go all over and the not so good or super high score judges stay in the same area and that is as far as they go....anyway...I am on disrespecting the SO Cal guys at all...and I was not there...so no harm no foul....second I am a very optimistic and try and see the best in everyone and everything...so I try and look at something from every angle..and not just one...maybe it is my athletic background...or my livestock...or maybe being a fire Captain....because when I look at a house on fire...I look at every angle...becuase if you miss something it will get you..anyway...Nick S...sent me some of his pills...sorry for rambling...but you know me and you know what side of the fence I am on....That goes for the earings to...I am on the right side...LOL
rock and ROLL
paul
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motherlodelofts
1801 posts
May 20, 2007
6:49 PM
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But Paul , a break is like depth, it's 100 0/0 meaningless without the qaulity , and if the qaulity isnt there it shouldn't be scored.
Scott
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George Ruiz
285 posts
May 20, 2007
7:09 PM
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I was just looking at a old issue of the N.B.R.C. Sept-Oct.2001 and on page 71 2001 W/C quals South Central region
judged by Steve Clayton, Aubrey Thibodeaux Had 55 breaks
for a total of 906.36.
46 breaks is not out of the question like Pual said the minimum depth is 10 ft not 30ft so it can happen.
George
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JMUrbon
261 posts
May 20, 2007
7:13 PM
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Again George like I said earlier I will call any score like that BS in my eyes until it is scored like that with me under it. I also acnowledged to Paul that I agree it was possible but to me HIGHLY unlikely. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
Last Edited by on May 20, 2007 7:13 PM
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motherlodelofts
1802 posts
May 20, 2007
7:23 PM
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55 breaks , that had to have been ugly , no thanks.
Scott
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George Ruiz
286 posts
May 20, 2007
7:28 PM
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Joe
That is fair every judge scores birds according to thier likeing and to thier standards.
if a judge feels that the birds must spin 30 ft to be scorable thats all good as long as he is consistent.
I still have a lot of respect for all these Judges that sacrafice thier time and money to go out and judge some birds, but if they keep getting negative feed back about the job they did soon we wont have anyone to call and ask to judge our birds .
remember that old saying "you cant please everyone"
thanks George
Last Edited by on May 20, 2007 7:55 PM
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motherlodelofts
1803 posts
May 20, 2007
7:38 PM
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George in that same year my buddy Tommy Brower took 11th with low 300s in the finals , and I don't see that kit in the top 10 of the finals hmmmm
From almost a thousand point in the qaul. to somewhere under 300 in the finals under even a liberal judge in the finals, that seems to most always be the pattern
Scott
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fhtfire
975 posts
May 20, 2007
7:40 PM
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Scott,
I know what you are saying...picture the least scorable....I mean...where you cringe everytime you say 5.....you have to score because of what the rules say...but the kit is nowhere close to what you consider a good kit...the bare minimum...then say 46...that is like fonzie saying I LOVE YOU>>>>I guess it can't be done...
George...you are right about the judges each having a different picture in there head on depth an quality...as long as the judge is consistant that that is what counts....but it does give a false impression to the fliers that popcorn is ok....anyway....that is all I got to say about that..LOL.
Anyway...Scott...I know exactly what you are saying...quality and depth have to be there to be scored well...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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George Ruiz
287 posts
May 20, 2007
7:53 PM
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Scott
That is true I have seen in the record books kits score 900plus and in the finals score 30 something.
stuff like that makes a person wonder what the heck happened .
Thanks
George
Last Edited by on May 20, 2007 7:53 PM
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Alohazona
285 posts
May 20, 2007
7:55 PM
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Scott,
I'm very curious on how you would score a kit such as Aubreys 55 break kit.That is not you're, average kit,tumblers or rollers.Quality is always my main concern,but if these kits are kitting,breaking,no out birds,returning to the kit,for 20 minutes,thats a performance.It might be alittle harder to keep up with,but they should be judged to the best of that judges ability.If 50% of that kit was crap,that still leaves you with 450 plus which is not a bad fly day.You as a judge are there to measure the quality beyond 10 feet with a minimun of 5 birds breaking,no grey areas,ifs ands or butts.There is nothing more to that as you make it out to be.This is a simple process.Ugly might be youre perception,but getting birds to kit,perform and work hard for 20 with no outbirds,is a feat in itself, and you owe it to the flyer to call the quality,adding in anything else would just be your personal style,which there is nothing wrong with,but the numbers win it....Aloha,Todd
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JMUrbon
262 posts
May 20, 2007
8:13 PM
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George, I too have the utmost respect for anybody that gives up their time away from their family and home to judge a fly for somebody. In all of my years I have only come accross one judge that I didnt know from one house to the other what he was looking for so it is easy to say that most judges easy or hard try to do their best to be consistant and that is all that can be expected. I am just mearly stating that we as a hobby have a huge difference from one guy to the other as to what is acceptable and what isn't. Im sure you have been at a fly somewhere and heard everybody behind you ohhing and awwing at a break when you were thinking to yourself " Man that was crap". anyway you get my point and I get yours. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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nicksiders
1708 posts
May 20, 2007
8:15 PM
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Paul,
You're kicking Scott's ass now; what is it going to be like after you learn this pigeon stuff.
Keep on learning, Buddy.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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fhtfire
976 posts
May 20, 2007
9:03 PM
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Nick,
You have to quit popping the pills..LOL!! It is not a matter of kicking ass...LOL...it is a matter of bad luck....on fly day...that is why I talk about the any given Sunday...I have had a couple of good Sundays,,,I think it is a lot of luck!...But I am not touching that one with a ten foot pole...I am not going to awake a sleeping giant!! I don't think that I am in the same league as Joe and Scott just yet....and I always will be learning...you quit acceling when you stop learning...My wife thinks I am part pigeon..maybe that is it....LOL!!
All joking aside...I do not take a good or bad score on one day of the year as a gauge of your quality of birds...you are a funny F*&$#r Nick..
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by on May 20, 2007 9:06 PM
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motherlodelofts
1804 posts
May 20, 2007
9:32 PM
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Paul, if I cringe , it is pretty doubtful that I would consider it scoreable , there for I wouldn't score it.
Scott
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1393 posts
May 20, 2007
9:33 PM
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I'm going to tip-toe through this one as I describe my fly, I have some very big issues with some things about it but will refrain from discussing those parts.
The judge gave my kit 38 breaks. I missed two other really nice breaks due to two birds taking their time to get back to the kit after rolling.
Were all of those breaks scoreable if I were judging? Yes, except for two breaks that I can remember saying to my friends standing close by.."I wouldn't have called that".
The last time I flew that kit before judgement day, I recorded them for 30 breaks in 20 minutes, 30 really good breaks. I was thrilled to death. I couldn't sleep the nights leading up to the fly because this was shaping up to be the best kit I've had yet. They didn't let me down on fly day either. They worked their asses off, and right after 20 minutes was up, they began to descend to the loft.
I'm not as scrutinizing as Scott is when it comes to judging, but I'm not loose either. I require my birds or any birds I am judging to go "instantaneously" and roll right. I don't expect them to roll with absolute perfection, just nice and clean and for one second at minimum.
They fly before fly day and fly day, I had them just right. The roll was as good as I have ever gotten a kit to perform. They were ON and there was NO dishrags, wingswitchers or other garbage. I have enough rollers that those don't live long here and never see the comp kit.
I would pay money to have my birds spin with the quality they showed that day again on another fly. I can only hope to one day own a kit as nice and manageable as the kit I have now, and trust me, when they are set up right, 30 plus breaks isn't out of the question in the least bit. I've never given that many breaks that I can recall when I've judged, but this kit would have gotten that many from me if it were someone elses.
For the record, there were a lot of breaks on this fly at different people's houses that were grossly underscored..and I mean to the point of being sickening.
So all it not what it seems unless you were there on the day that a particular kit performed.
PS--and for whoever it was that said a high scoring kit that did well in the prelims, only to get a handful of points in the finals....the comment being..."what happened". I've seen some really good performances from kits that qualified and flew near the same performance in the finals, only to be not scored because of outbird problems. You don't see those comments much.
Brian.
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motherlodelofts
1805 posts
May 20, 2007
9:34 PM
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"Anyway...Scott...I know exactly what you are saying...quality and depth have to be there to be scored well..."
Paul
Paul ,qaulity has to be there for me to score it at all.
Scott
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motherlodelofts
1806 posts
May 20, 2007
9:43 PM
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"Paul,
You're kicking Scott's ass now; what is it going to be like after you learn this pigeon stuff.
Keep on learning, Buddy.
Nick
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Snicker Rollers "
I knew that was coming LOL , thats all right , I made a commitment to a priority where the birds are concerned 2 plus years ago that I knew would hurt me for a few years as far as the team was concerned.
The payoff is in sight though , I aint just sitting back up on this hill just stroking it , trust me.
Paul is doing good Nick , and that is a good thing , the more that do well the more the bar is raised .
Scott
Last Edited by on May 20, 2007 9:49 PM
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nicksiders
1709 posts
May 20, 2007
9:51 PM
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LMAO Scott,
We all know that you are there. I respect your knowledge; your energy; and your skills and so does everyone else in this hobby.....I just had to throw that left hook; you know I did.
As Joe would say; "Its all good".
Nick
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Snicker Rollers
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motherlodelofts
1807 posts
May 20, 2007
9:52 PM
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Brian , yes it is possible with the right kit and the stars line up properly , why were all the multipliers the same in that region ? that seemed odd as I know the qaulity wasn't the same across the board.
Scott
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fhtfire
980 posts
May 20, 2007
9:58 PM
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Scott,
ok...I agree that that quality has to be there....or it will not score...anyway...Nick is a ruthless S.O.B....kiking a man when he is down...LOL! Anyway..thanks for the "I am doing good"....if I am doing good...it is because I listen to the Scott C and Joes and Brian's etc...Anyway...I know you will be back ...kicking ass soon..
rock and ROLL
Paul
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motherlodelofts
1808 posts
May 20, 2007
10:03 PM
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".If 50% of that kit was crap,that still leaves you with 450 plus which is not a bad fly day.You as a judge are there to measure the quality beyond 10 feet with a minimun of 5 birds breaking,no grey areas,"
Good point Todd , genualy though ugly spawns ugly , the best kits aren't full of ugly , they hammer hard with qaulity and there is very little sorting out garbage.
A good example of this was Rick Shoenings kit in Monana That I recently judged , now that was a kit of what a true first class kit of birmingham rollers are supposed to look like and a kit that has the ptential to do very well under a good qaulity judge , there was very little if any that werent hammering it hard and correctly and one of the better teams that I have judged.
Scott
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knaylor
483 posts
May 20, 2007
10:05 PM
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Paul, never to have judge has nothing to do with it?? LOL Write that down and after a couple of years of traveling and judging kits you will look at them totally different.When you are judging you are looking at soooo much more. You are looking at all the aspects of the kit.Trust me!!
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JMUrbon
263 posts
May 20, 2007
10:13 PM
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Brian that was put very well and you did well at holding your thoughts. I think that 30 breaks is possible. The birds had better be set up perfect however and I have no reason to doubt your judgement on them. 43 breaks however and still maintaining those same kinds of multipliers is awfully tough. I for one would sure like to see it. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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fhtfire
981 posts
May 20, 2007
10:17 PM
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Kevin,
It is true...just because you judge does not mean that you know what you are talking about....maybe for you...or Scott...etc...you know what you are talking about...but there are judges that suck period..and that is in every sport..refs...etc...I know you look at the whole kit and it is serious business...but.....I was saying it in a broad aspect....just because you judge..does not make you a better fancier or know pigeons better. WHen I say you...I don't mean you (kevin) I mean you as anybody..
I know....because I have judged goats, sheep and swine...but mostly goats...I have also judged floriculture..(don't laugh..that is were all the hot girls were) and I have been a wrestling ref for about 6 years...at the high shool level...and coached at the high school level now...just becuase I ref..does not mean I am a good wrestler(even though I was)LOL...or a good ref....I know refs that make some shitty calls....and were very good wrestlers....I know guys that were crappy wrestlers and they are the best refs you can get. Some of the best coaches in sports....were just your average player in those sports...but anyway...I know that you look at more when you judge, ref, coach or whatever...I am just saying that does not mean that becuase you do any of the above you know what you are talking about.
Nothing on you....I actually like it when you judge..because you are tough...and you see it how it is...and that is why When you hand me my score sheet I agree with you when you say that a they Black one was loose or whatever...we are usually on the same page...it was nothing toward you...just the comment.....rock and ROLL
Paul
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MCCORMICKLOFTS
1394 posts
May 20, 2007
10:18 PM
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Scott, I won't discuss it here because what I say won't be nice, but you can call me and I'll tell you my thoughts on that subject.
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