John
146 posts
Jan 06, 2008
12:43 PM
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Can some of you guys post a picture of a bird that shows expression versus one that doesn't? Also can you post a picture of a bird that shows character versus one that doesn't? I have noticed that some of the guys that are hard core fliers or fly competitions don't talk about expression or character as much as the guys who are more into the show part of this sport/hobby. I'm not saying that they don't use this tool but you just don't hear it as much from the fliers.
John
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ezeedad
232 posts
Jan 06, 2008
1:03 PM
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Here is a bird that I especially like.. Bred by Efren
Lopez. He is a great example of good expression and character. This bird was certified by top judges...
I believe that good expression and character is something
that we should all strive for. Pensom speaks about both expression and character..... Gomez
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2008 1:04 PM
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kopetsa
48 posts
Jan 06, 2008
1:06 PM
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very nice bird ezeedad. I bet you will do well in shows with him.
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2008 1:07 PM
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ezeedad
233 posts
Jan 06, 2008
1:08 PM
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This is not my bird.. It's Efrens'...
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roll-n-4-ever
60 posts
Jan 06, 2008
1:18 PM
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THIS SHOULD BE PERFECT FOR YOU....
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Skylineloft
844 posts
Jan 06, 2008
1:30 PM
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Don't you think expression and character are two separate things in a bird.
Example, Character would be how the bird was in the air. Was he soft in character, meaning the bird came into the roll early, could be a bit on the hot side and you need to keep the bird fed up for this bird to perform at its best as opposed to a bird thats hard in character. You have to break this bird down to get control of it. How long it fly's and it might be a bit stiff so you need to change its feeding pattern to get the most out of the bird.
Expression is something you would look for in the show pen, Its like the bird is saying, hey, look at me, Like the bird posted for this thread by Paul. And it seems to me that great spinners will have that great expression. You can see it in the bird.
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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John
148 posts
Jan 06, 2008
1:45 PM
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Paul and Roll-n-4-ever,
Those are both really nice birds. I understand what you guys are both talking about. Paul I know you have been birds for a long time and have some really nice brids. Guys what I'm looking for is a bird that isn't showing any expression or character or both so we can compare the two(side by Side).Some of the new guys may not know what this is but if it can be seen it may help. I'm not saying post a picture of a bird showing no expression to put anyones birds down in any way but rather to show the difference in expression and non expression.
John
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2008 1:59 PM
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JMHD
233 posts
Jan 06, 2008
1:53 PM
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Here you go
John M.Loft(HDRC)So,Cal.
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Skylineloft
845 posts
Jan 06, 2008
1:59 PM
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Like this ?
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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John
149 posts
Jan 06, 2008
2:28 PM
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Ray,
That's not a good picture of that bird. That's what I was lookin for. Is that the same bird that place high a Rayvons? If so place the picture that posted the day or so after the show.
John
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2008 2:42 PM
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Skylineloft
846 posts
Jan 06, 2008
2:30 PM
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LMAO,
Paul, its actually from my #1 team. Its a kit bird and a good one...lol
But your right, one look and you say to yourself, what the hell is that..LOL
I would also consider this bird weak in character. The bird is deep and needs to be fed up to keep it from killing itself.....lol Definitely on the hot side. Lets see if I will be able to get it back in the air after sitting all winter in a kit box.
She sure was working her ass off when I shut her down.
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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Skylineloft
847 posts
Jan 06, 2008
2:33 PM
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This was the bird at Rayvons house.
It took 2nd overall in the show there.
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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John
150 posts
Jan 06, 2008
2:47 PM
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Ray,
That's a nice bird I really like that one alot.
John
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ezeedad
235 posts
Jan 06, 2008
2:54 PM
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RAY..!! You threw me a curve... Those pictures don't even look like the same bird..!! I'm going to have
to take an even closer look after I type this.. Must be like Dr Jeckyl and Mr. Hyde... But to tell you
the truth, I was also finally getting the chance to let a bird have it... Cuz some birds being posted just
don't look like they have the goods..
** (After I reread the posts)... So it's NOT the same bird..!! And the fact that it's having problems is
evidence of it being weak in character...
Paul
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2008 2:58 PM
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luis
473 posts
Jan 06, 2008
2:57 PM
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I think a bird just like a person could look good or lousy in a picture.It usually takes some work to get your birds to pose!Some birds look amazing all the time and are photogenic(just like people) while others look like crap no matter what you try!
I personally think that (some) ugly birds without expression could spin their butt off and(some) great looking birds could be stiff(genetics is a funny thing).It all depends with what you start and your skill at breeding!
For the most part i think we all would agree that the asthetically pleasing birds w/performance is what we strive for.Who wants a loft full of ugly birds when you can have both sides of the coin!
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spanky
245 posts
Jan 06, 2008
3:04 PM
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RAY THAT IS A REAL NICE BIRD. GOT TO GET ME ONE OF THEM.
SPANKY
SGVS
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RXR Loft
157 posts
Jan 06, 2008
3:07 PM
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here are some of mine.
what do you think of these??
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Rudy
RxR Loft
Roll'em if you got'em...
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spanky
248 posts
Jan 06, 2008
3:09 PM
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LOOKING GOOD RUDY.
SPANKY
SGVS
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Skylineloft
848 posts
Jan 06, 2008
3:12 PM
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Let me re-describe the kit bird. Its what I would call soft in character. This is not a junk bird by any means. Its a good spinner from my #1 team, but it does not show good expression if you where just looking at the bird in the show pen.
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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luis
474 posts
Jan 06, 2008
3:16 PM
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Good looking youngsters Rudy.I hope they make it.
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John
151 posts
Jan 06, 2008
3:31 PM
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Ray,
That was one of the things I was getting at. That birds doesn't show great expression but it's a great spinner.Just like when you have a guy like Bo Jackson and how big he is he shouldn't be as fast as he was (4.1- 40 yards). The same thing with Hershcel walker, just didn't fit the mold of a sprinter but had world class speed.
John
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Skylineloft
851 posts
Jan 06, 2008
4:48 PM
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John,
Do you agree with me that Expression and Character are two different things to look for in a bird and that they are not the same thing ?
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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Flipmode
28 posts
Jan 06, 2008
5:11 PM
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Here's mine!
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2008 5:14 PM
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rollermanx0
122 posts
Jan 06, 2008
5:22 PM
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here's one i personally like
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rOLLerManx0
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ezeedad
236 posts
Jan 06, 2008
5:34 PM
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Ray,
Okay, I'd say this about that bird... It's okay to keep it in your kit, but in my opinion that's as far
as it should go. I've seen enough of your birds to know that you have much better to breed from..
Gomez
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rollermanx0
126 posts
Jan 06, 2008
5:39 PM
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Ray, one mans trash is another mans treasure..let me have that one and i'll call you over to see the babies in 6 months...lol!
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rOLLerManx0
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smoke747
463 posts
Jan 06, 2008
5:54 PM
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Paul, the bird that you posted was bred by me sir(smoke747).
Smoke x Reed
smoke747
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Donny James
239 posts
Jan 06, 2008
6:13 PM
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i have to agree with ray.................donny james
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smoke747
467 posts
Jan 06, 2008
6:34 PM
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Ray that mottle cock is awesome!!
smoke747
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John
152 posts
Jan 06, 2008
6:41 PM
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Ray,
Yes I would have to agree. I feel that the are two different things.
John
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Norm_Knox
108 posts
Jan 06, 2008
6:45 PM
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What do U guys think of these ??
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Norm_Knox
109 posts
Jan 06, 2008
6:47 PM
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How about the character on him ???? LOL
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MGS LOFT
18 posts
Jan 06, 2008
6:55 PM
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IS THIS A GOOD EXPRESSION AND CHARECTER?
A HOT CHOCOLATE GRANDSON.....
Last Edited by on Jan 06, 2008 7:06 PM
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ezeedad
237 posts
Jan 06, 2008
7:23 PM
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Keith,
So you bred that bird..?? Okay. Then Efren got it from you.... He reminds me of that cock that you were using a few years back.. That is the bird that you, Juan and Rayvon certified as a spinner..right?
Paul
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kopetsa
50 posts
Jan 06, 2008
7:37 PM
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Last Edited by on Jan 09, 2008 5:05 PM
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Skylineloft
858 posts
Jan 06, 2008
9:19 PM
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IM glad to hear that you agree with me on that John. As you know, IM no expert when it comes to questions like this. Maybe we can get someone on here to explain the difference in more detail so that we understand the difference between the two.
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Ray
Breeding Quality Spinners,
"One Roller At A Time".
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luis
480 posts
Jan 06, 2008
9:54 PM
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I've stated my opinion on expression.As far as character goes i think you can equate that with the birds mental strenghts and abilities (just like in people....LOL)or lack thereof!
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elopez
319 posts
Jan 07, 2008
12:01 AM
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Hey Paul,
Thanks for the compliments on the "Certified Cock". Got him from Keith, he was one of Keith's top breeder. Keith breed him. Never seen him fly but Keith explained the way he spun..
This cock was certified by Juan Navarro, Rayvon Hall and Kevin McCray as a certified spinner!
I'll take some better pics of him and post them. He was feeding young when I took this pic.
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Efren Lopez
SGVS
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gotspin7
1131 posts
Jan 07, 2008
5:05 AM
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Efren, nice one!
Ray the second one!
Rudy the black white flight!
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Sal Ortiz
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ezeedad
239 posts
Jan 07, 2008
6:41 AM
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Thanks Efren....
Man...!! Every time I see that dog's picture I want to make a joke... but I know somebody loves him...
so I won't..!! I kind of wanted to mix something in about Michael Vick with advice about breeding... looks like a sweet dog..!!
Gomez
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CSRA
1096 posts
Jan 07, 2008
9:28 AM
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The One
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Mount Airy Lofts
355 posts
Jan 07, 2008
11:09 AM
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Ray,
Character and expression are two different things in my book as well. Character is how the bird acts or what I call the heart of a bird. While expression is merely how the bird represents itself on the ground, the head is where I would focus on when looking for expression in a bird.
Of course, this is just my take. I'm no W. H. Pensom so I would not dare telling any one that they have culls just from a photo or a perched bird. I find it funny how some one could tell just by looking at a bird that it rolls this many feet or rolls this many times in a minute or be the best in the air from the lot just by looking at a bird on the ground or a photo.
Thor
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Mount Airy Lofts
356 posts
Jan 07, 2008
11:16 AM
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Gomez aka ezeebad,
How old is that Red Check? I'm curious how you guys run your certification program. My local club has one but the bird must be at least 3 years old before it can be certified. Meaning if it was born in 2007 (band 2007), then it must be year the 3000 before the bird can be judged and possibility certified.
Thor - correction 2010 thanks guys mis typo
P.S. I think this is the year I will try to certify some of my older kit birds. I have a 2003, a 2004, and 2 2005 that I will try this year.
Last Edited by on Jan 08, 2008 7:21 PM
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Mount Airy Lofts
357 posts
Jan 07, 2008
11:21 AM
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Norm_....
If you asked me, one rolls blood in it's eye. The other looks very young - yearling at best. The lavender looks to be more interested in the ground than taking a photo :)
Thor
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CSRA
1102 posts
Jan 07, 2008
12:01 PM
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u mean 2010 lol
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GREED FOR SPEED LOFT
362 posts
Jan 07, 2008
12:23 PM
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Thor ,you are right on target with the discription on character and expression.
R-LUNA
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2008 12:24 PM
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Norm_Knox
111 posts
Jan 07, 2008
12:32 PM
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Thor U'r right on. The check on the left is very young but promising. The checker in the middle is a 06 hen I raised and shes a knock out.
ezeedad the dog is only 7 months in this picture so he wont look as good as the other dog on here. Darn man that other pit looks like a monster man.
Here is the checker on the left now ...
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Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2008 12:43 PM
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Norm_Knox
114 posts
Jan 07, 2008
12:58 PM
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the best young bird I raised in 07. Out of my H. Cook stuff. Little fat because of the lock-down ...
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Mount Airy Lofts
358 posts
Jan 07, 2008
1:39 PM
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CSRA,
:) You caught me red handed!! Thanks bud...
Thor
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2008 1:40 PM
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CSRA
1103 posts
Jan 07, 2008
2:04 PM
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it is all good lol
Last Edited by on Jan 07, 2008 2:04 PM
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