dmitch
66 posts
Apr 29, 2008
6:48 PM
|
Scott and your right about the drop wings that come from Canada breeding the Oriental Roller in and that how the Almond color come in to play.
|
Scott
447 posts
Apr 29, 2008
7:04 PM
|
Mitch , I think that Almond can be found in the breed somewhere , at least that is what I hear.
Many of the Almonds in this country came from crossing in the Oriental by color breeders though.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
Velo99
1675 posts
Apr 29, 2008
8:12 PM
|
National Geographic 1926:
The modern Racing Homer weighs about 16 ounces. It may be blue, blue checker, black checker, black, red, red checker, mealy, silver, dun, and splashes, since it is not bred for color, but for type and racing ability. The best fanciers of Homing Pigeons seldom mate two birds of the same color, since emphasis of color breeding is believed to minimize strength and racing ability.
----------
V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
|
luis
868 posts
Apr 29, 2008
9:08 PM
|
....and after 3 pages of posts,no one has answered the question.What part of the Birmingham roller standard STATES what colors are not allowed within the BREED? LOL.
If i can breed color birds that roll and look like BRs,i will call them BRs because nothing in the BR standard is keeping me from calling them so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last Edited by on Apr 29, 2008 9:13 PM
|
Scott
455 posts
Apr 29, 2008
9:15 PM
|
Luis, we know what colors aren't in the breed, and we know where they came from.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 29, 2008 9:18 PM
|
fhtfire
1308 posts
Apr 29, 2008
9:43 PM
|
Luis,
calling them a birmingham roller has nothing to do with the standard....it is the breed....the breed is from pure blood....the standard is what you want from the breed...standard is secondary to pure blood....meeting the standard has nothing to do with calling them a birmingham roller...like a said...a stiff in my loft does not meet the standard..but guess what it is a birmingham roller....why...because it is the blood....the standard is how the BREED IS MEASURED..nothing more nothing less.....like a said before...if a tumbler rolled like a br..would it be a birmingham because it rolls...not because it is of tumbler blood.
You color question has been answered....we all not what colors are not normal.....read the posts....it has been stated over and over.
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
luis
872 posts
Apr 29, 2008
9:48 PM
|
It has been stated by those who advocate on behalf of your camp Paul!I want a statement from the NBRC...LOL!Then i will toss all my impure rollers to the curb!
Make um' spin like hell guys and forget all this petty crap!
|
fhtfire
1309 posts
Apr 29, 2008
10:19 PM
|
Luis brother..I do not have a camp and I am not afraid to say that I am wrong or made a mistake...my posts are what I believe and it does not matter what Scott or Milo or anyone believes...we just happen to agree on this subject...keeping the breed pure....nobody said you have to get rid of your birds....and you never stated you have color bids..you stated you have RR and grizzle...that is not a colored bird...so you have no worries..LOL...again...I have no camp...
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
luis
875 posts
Apr 29, 2008
11:02 PM
|
Paul,i do have 1 Qualmond left and i'm going to breed him.Otherwise i will not be able to argue this juicy stuff with you guys anymore.LOL.
All kidding aside,i do believe much can be accomplished with pigeons if you're willing to educate yourself and put in the time necessary to accomplish such a difficult task as is breeding Performing Color Rollers.Hey i'm going to start a new club....PCRC!You want to join Paul?
|
Ballrollers
1179 posts
Apr 30, 2008
4:59 AM
|
Paul
Slow down. EVERY color bird that left the Turner loft met the genetic test for purity. If all my birds are from that family, the purity is the same as the birds in your loft if you have only one family. I don't breed for color , I breed for spin, colors and factors just go along for the ride. Just like your loft.
The Turner family personifies, in every way, the physical stature of the BR. A fan tail cross would not, even it could spin. These birds meet the standards for genetic purity, I don't know any other way to tell you that. I talked to James for hours, I know what he did and how he did it. I am sure of my facts. Go talk to Randy Gibson if you don't believe me. If nothing will convince you, don't worry about it. You don't like color birds anyway.
James simply took the factor from one roller and added it to his family...COLOR ONLY. If you had no grizzle in your family and you wanted grizzle in your family, you would seek out a good looking grizzle roller, Birmingham Roller and bred it one of yours and give that carrier bird back. Then through careful selection and flying you would pick the best F1, cull the rest and begin again the process till grizzle was set in your birds and was as pure as your birds. Matter of fact. that's how they did it by crossing in the tippler breed in the early 1900s. NO difference. Yet you accept that modifier, even though it is also due to a breed outcross. To get that grizzle factor out of your birds you must cull every one you see . Because it is dominate , it will express itself. The process is similar for recessive genes but more time consuming cause you can't always see it but that does not lessen the purity of the bird. That does not lessen the expression of the factor. The Birmingham Roller "motor" is there.
I like these birds you don't; no problem.... you are still a fine member of our fancy, a breeder of Birmingham rollers, you fly them in competitions to prove your birds and your handling skills and you are willing to work for the betterment of the NBRC /WC, just like me. We have a difference of opinions, nothing more. I respect you and your birds. I can pay you no higher complement.
Cliff
|
Ballrollers
1180 posts
Apr 30, 2008
5:00 AM
|
George
You saw Randy's birds Did they look like anything but PURE BIRMINGHAM ROLLERS?
Did they perform like PURE BIRMINGHAM ROLLERS?
Do you know IF Randy has ever crossed another breed of pigeon into his birds? I would be very surprised if he had.
Randy is a great guy, a great pigeon man, and is a great handler. Are the falcons on him as bad as they are in other parts of California? BOPS are changing the way guys fly. A plaque on the wall is not worth the losses some are enduring. (I got your e-mail, too and will respond shortly.)
Cliff
|
Ballrollers
1181 posts
Apr 30, 2008
5:56 AM
|
Milo, Scott,
OK, I admit I got a little carried away, there. Sorry about that. I try to stay lucid and rational, but sometimes...... LOL! I think that you guys are misunderstanding my meaning about the fear thing. I did not intend to offend you or your families of birds. I am not saying that the Turner family of rollers is better than any other. What I am saying is that most of what I am reading from the purist pedigree side of the coin is emotional rhetoric, heresay and rumor, that is simply not true and has no basis in scientific fact, like the Old Salem Witch hunts...for example this illusion that the color just "goes away" in time. Indigo and reduced will be in my family of rollers inddefinitely...as it has for many decades........and without EVER using a breed outcross...... unless I cull it out...just like grizzle or recessive red. Do we have to keep breeding back to Tipplers to get grizzles? Of course not! Maybe we need to be more specific about which color modifier you are talking about. (And incidentally, Paul, reduced sometimes shows up as a white bar). So you cannot assume, as you do, when you see a white bar (Reduced or Dominant Opal), an Andalusian, an Indigo, a Dominant Opal, a Reduced (which is lace), or a brown that the guy is guilty of breed outcrossing. (I don't know much about Pencil and Toy Stencil)
The Salem witch hunts involved the wanton destruction of people's lives based on things that certain radical groups of people did not understand at the time; like disease, ill-fortune, severe weather changes...things they were afraid might have a negative impact on their lives. And today we know that their fears were based on their ignorance of the science behind these occurrences, prejudice, rumor, heresay, and self-righteousness....and today we know that those fears were unfounded.
I view these color issues, calls for these birds to be culled, and their breeders to be removed from the NBRC and its competitions as much the same...to be, primarily, emotional reactions and fears that the breed was impacted in some imaginary negative way by Turner's work...and all based mostly on rumor and heresay; lack of knowledge and a working experience with this family; and the science of the genetics. Rather than going out and learning about the inheritance of color and gene modifers in pigeons, some men persist in the notion that it (genetics)is not important, yet they persist in using their misinformation to make quantum leaps to erroneous conclusion about this family of pigeons, as well as others. These are good pigeons, guys.
I hope this adds a little clarity to what I was trying to say.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Apr 30, 2008 6:54 AM
|
Scott
456 posts
Apr 30, 2008
6:02 AM
|
Randy is a good roller man, but like most guys with color birds the Andys aren't the only thing he is flying and breeding.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
Ballrollers
1182 posts
Apr 30, 2008
6:49 AM
|
Scott,
Did I make any reference to all the factors, colors, patterns and families that Randy is working with? I used the same broad sweeping posture that is used when some refer to " Color Breeders". Without intimate first hand knowledge of how a man breeds his birds, mistakes can be made as whether or not different breeds of pigeons are being crossed onto rollers. I think Randy has been breeding his birds long enough to call them Gibson family, don't you? Lots of successful roller flyers breed one or more different families and sub families. Or is that a sin too? Do we all have to accept that your breeding philosophy is the only one that is valid?
Cliff
|
Ballrollers
1183 posts
Apr 30, 2008
7:14 AM
|
Gentlemen,
It appears to me that we have about exhausted the educational value of this discussion. If I have offended anyone in the process, I apologize. That was not my intention. Scott, I am not going to respond to your list of questions, because I have answered them a hundred times before and you keep ignoring the answers, or persisting in your own misinformation regardless of the facts I present to you. If anyone really wants me to respond to them, let me know and I guess I will be forced to do so. LOL!
As it has been stated time and time again, "you know my position on this issue" and so far, no argument has been presented that has made me question that position. Until a breed or color standard is adopted by the NBRC/WC my birds/color birds meet the current definition to be called a Birmingham Roller. That is only my opinion and does not mean it carries anymore weight than anyone else's.
If the NBRC and World Cup can't decide on who is a qualified judge and who isn't, what wing positions are most coveted, or what colors define the Birmingham Roller, why should I be concerned about it? I am concerned, more, about how my birds perform, and how my kits are evaluated by the judge.I love this hobby, the many friends I have as a result of it, and I love breeding and flying these birds; and I enjoy watching a good kit of Rollers no matter whose they are, what the colors are, or where it has feathers. I work hard at separating the fact from the fiction in this sport. You choose what family you want to fly. It has been stated, here, that the family is yours as soon as the background birds were bred by you. So what ever family you fly, choose performance over color every chance you get and you will truly show your respect for the "breed". Best of luck to all of you....hope to see you all in Texas at the convention! Our Southeast World Cup Regionals are this weekend and I will be concentrating on my birds, and on flying competition with some great guys.
Later dudes,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Apr 30, 2008 7:16 AM
|
dmitch
67 posts
Apr 30, 2008
7:32 AM
|
Pensom said the true Birmingham Roller performance is one of the highest quality the perfect or true rolling pigeon turned over backwards so fast that the whole bird become a (BLUR).I dont now about no one els but that is my persuit to happynes.
|
Scott
457 posts
Apr 30, 2008
7:38 AM
|
Good luck with the fly Cliff !!!
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
fhtfire
1310 posts
Apr 30, 2008
8:27 AM
|
Cliff,
first I have never bashed Turner or even know how he did his thing...or really care to. I have never bashed your birds or questioned you. I am not questioning anybody that has birds that have been bred back pure....I am only talking about the birds that are OBVIOUSLY not pure. So for the last time...I am not bashing people flying Turner birds...I am not questioning Turner selling F1 as birminghams....I am not questioning breeders flying birds that have color in the WAY back background....Just the OBVIOUS...like Toy Stencil..so...Cliff..no need to take it like I am questioning the great Turner or your birds or whoever else flys birds with color in the way back background...I am only for the last time....people calling birds that are obviously a cross a birmingham roller...and then for the NBRC to allow a photo to be posted of a bird with obvious colors that are not a 15/16 bird....ok....hope that clears it up.
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
Ballrollers
1184 posts
Apr 30, 2008
9:14 AM
|
Paul
Thank you for posting your opinions. I enjoyed the interesting ideas you put fourth since contrasting ideas help educate us all. I hope you enjoy the sport as much as I do. I think that some of your questions could be better addressed by those who have the power to change the present performance definition . Your opinions are every bit as valid as mine.
Cliff
|
MILO
953 posts
Apr 30, 2008
5:07 PM
|
Are you serious? I am recovering from Cliff losing his composure.
c
|
luis
883 posts
Apr 30, 2008
9:06 PM
|
Sure Milo if you say so.
Cliff,regardless of what is said,you've made some very valid comments on these threads.Now and in the past.
|
Electric-man
1519 posts
Apr 30, 2008
9:34 PM
|
So has Scott, Milo, Paul and a few others! I learn alot on these debates! Opens my mind to many things, on both sides!
----------
Val
"Site Moderator"
|
luis
887 posts
Apr 30, 2008
9:40 PM
|
Therein lies the progress Val.You realize the VALidity of both sides!LOL!
Last Edited by on Apr 30, 2008 9:44 PM
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2413 posts
Apr 30, 2008
11:30 PM
|
Hey Luis, you are wrong. The Birmingham Roller is a breed. The facts say so. Paul F. has hit the nail on the head about crosses so many times in this current debate that I can't believe you would still try to throw out straw men.
Cliff is throwing out straw men almost every time he posts on this issue.
The only confusion is when one does not follow the facts and allows all the "what about this and what about that" speculations and theory's to divert him to go off-road.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
Last Edited by on Apr 30, 2008 11:31 PM
|
luis
888 posts
Apr 30, 2008
11:55 PM
|
"The Birmingham roller is a breed".Well of course it is Tony!That's not what the argument is about.The argument is and always has been about color and what constitutes a "true BR" and what doesn't.Who made you guys the experts on the subject?Talk to someone who is educated on genetics and see what he has to say about all this! Straw men!LOL.
|
MILO
955 posts
May 01, 2008
12:00 AM
|
Luis.
Stay focused man. You are starting to sound like Cliff when he goes on a rant. He makes great points for sure, but loses me when he gets personal and starts to insult.
I have a couple questions for you, as I feel the thread is done. Where did you get your rollers Luis from and how long have you had them? I would like to know about the birds you are working with.
c
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2414 posts
May 01, 2008
12:15 AM
|
Luis said:
"Dave,like i stated on the other post that's running this subject...If the standard that is given for the breed does not state what colors are not permited within the breed. All color birds that perform and look like BRs are BRs,and no one can say a damn thing otherwise!
Talk about opinions, my goodness!
Just not true for ALL the reasons already posted in several threads (read Paul F.) Luis, you play word games in an attempt to confuse and obfuscate.
Sounds to me like you have set your own standard and it's everyone else who has to adjust to yours. Since you are not the governing body, I will defer to the NBRC which is.
BTW, I do see your convoluted logic and there are just too many twists and turns for me to want to take that ride.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
Last Edited by on May 01, 2008 12:17 AM
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2415 posts
May 01, 2008
12:20 AM
|
1st: You have the "breed", then
2nd: You have the "standard" for the breed
3rd: The standard is an attempt to "ensure" the breed
The fact that there is not an apparent written color standard does not mean there is NOT a breed first.
Perhaps the reason there is not a color standard is because it has no bearing on what the Birmingham Roller is - first and does foremost and that is to be a "performing" breed, not a "show" breed where the visual characteristics themselves are what is being judged.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
|
luis
891 posts
May 01, 2008
1:13 AM
|
"To many twists and turns for me to want to take that ride".Likewise Tony,i'm not interested in changing opinions!I'm just stateing mine.
Milo,although this has nothing to do with my beliefs on the subject,i will answer your question.
Most of my birds at this point are Ron Duncan strain(Higgins)by way of a friend and Bob Scott birds.I have 1 colored bird...LOL...that was bred by Hector out of Paul Gomez line.I have been breeding rollers for two years now but also had them as a young boy.I have bred and competed with Sporting Pouters for many years as well.All together i have had & loved pigeons for about 27 years (shoot i'm getting old!)
I firmly believe that much can and has been accomplished with pigeons in the field of genetics and inheritance and that is why i don't agree with the purist philosophy(I also love to debate even if i'm not that great at it).Bottom line,thank GOD we live in a land were we are entitled to such freedoms.
Last Edited by on May 01, 2008 1:33 AM
|
Velo99
1676 posts
May 01, 2008
4:41 AM
|
Let me re-iterate. Since there isnt a standard for color, just type and performsnce, it is up to each breeder to keep the breed pure. There are enough factors and colors set into the breed already. I believe the NBRC has not defined a color for the birds because the focus should be on perfromance and type rather than the pretty paint job. If one is not breeding strictly for performance they are not adhering to the set objectives of the NBRC,there in lies the problem and the discussions we have had in this thread. To be in compliance with the NBRC the breeders should follow the basic teachiings of animal husbandry and the honesty the governing body expects from the membership.
Be true to your self be true to your fellow fanciers and lastly and most importantly be true to the breed. The payoff is the True Birmingham Roller for the next generation to enjoy.
Luis, when a man stops learning he begins dying.
"Pliny"
___ _______
\__\_/-|_|__\__\___
()_)__20___()_)\__\
----------
V99
Keep the best. Eat the rest.
Last Edited by on May 01, 2008 4:47 AM
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2418 posts
May 01, 2008
6:07 AM
|
Well said Kenny, topic is done. The Birmingham Roller breeders effectively made their point. I done with this one! (for now...LOL)
Thanks Luis, NEXT!
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
|
fhtfire
1311 posts
May 01, 2008
8:11 AM
|
Well,
The one thing that bugs me is being dissed for being a purist...That I do not understand....without purist...we would not have any pure breeds left....the purists are the good guys....lol...keeping breeds pure...how dare I keep breeding birminghams to birminghams and then toot my horn on keeping them pure....or do the good guys mix onther breeds into a set respected breed and go against the very Standard that they embrace so much..I have been told to ...looked at the standard a hundred times...but you have to follow the standard from the get go....so the second you put a fantail on a roller you have totally not followed the standard ...and then when you finally breed the roll back in..you rely on the very standard that you did not follow to back up your claims that a colored bird is a Birmingham.
Second I can't say anything else about the meaning of BREED and Standard....Tony put it in numerical order..I have said it over and over that the BREED comes first.....If I had color crayons I would draw a picture....LOL...it is not hard to understand.
As far as Genetics go...yes there is still a lot to be learned and it is FUN to try and do this with that and see what happens....lots of other breeds have been developed from guys mixing and matching breeds....the labradoodle, the pit bull...just to name a couple....but the fact is....these people went out to start a new BREED and never claimed a labradoodle was a lab...or a pit bull was an american bull dog....they are different BREEDS now.....so the fact is...if you put a lace on a Birmingham...just call it something else like everyone else does.....From my years of experience in animal husbandry......Brimingham guys are the only guys that I have ever heard of letting a cross inherit the name of the breed of one of its parents....I can't understand why...that is what is confusing...is it money driven, pride...I don't know....but you cross..you can't call it a birmingham...
and well...I have nothing else that I can add....I guess I will continue to be a purist and do my part to keep the br a br .....I breed the best to best....the best to best are the birds that meet the standard of the BREEED...if you do not breed birds that meet the standard...then you are hurting the breed......that means breeding stiffs...rolldowns and most of all...breeding from another breed....that goes against the STANDARD totally......I was always taught that you do it right from the begining...that way you do not have to go back and try and fix your mistake...well breeding away from the standard in the begining...is the very problem...
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2419 posts
May 01, 2008
8:28 AM
|
Paul, I sit at your feet and ponder your wisdom...and way of articulating your point.
I too noticed the word "purist" has become a pejorative around certain fellows. Talk to you soon Paul.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
|
luis
893 posts
May 01, 2008
9:14 AM
|
I breed best to best also,even if they have pretty colors!
Thanks Tony,NEXT!
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2421 posts
May 01, 2008
9:17 AM
|
Good for you Luis! Nothing wrong with breeding colors and trying to create a new roller breed showing beautiful colors and patterns.
If there is ever anything I can do to help you out, please let me know. Would be glad to help out.
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
|
Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1197 posts
May 01, 2008
9:29 AM
|
So after all this discussion on color breeding again all I can see that the Purist has come up with that is a rare color crossed into the BR from another breed is Pencil and Toy Stencil.
Appears that all the other colors have already been in the BR's according to the experts.LOL. NEXT. David
|
luis
895 posts
May 01, 2008
9:32 AM
|
"There are enough factors and colors SET into the BREED already".
I agree with you 110% Kenny!
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2422 posts
May 01, 2008
9:56 AM
|
Dave, c'mon man, you have been around this site a long time. To fully appreciate any current discussion one has to take the time to research the debate in its entirety, starting from posts back in January 2004 to the latest post.
I could understand this post of yours if all you ever knew about the debate was on this thread, however, you know all aspects of this debate (including colors, what constitutes a breed, people selling color rollers as BR to make a buck, etc)
Dave, give me something to debate, not attempts at being witty. You have kept yourself out of this debate, now that Luis has been cornered, the tag has been made and now you want to jump in and wear me out. LOL
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
|
MILO
957 posts
May 01, 2008
10:10 AM
|
Tony.
As Nick would say...
Annoying aint it?
c
|
Electric-man
1522 posts
May 01, 2008
10:19 AM
|
Stirring the pot now? C'mon David!
I believe some of us were acused of "trolling" when this was tried on your site!
Respect ought to go both ways! JMO
----------
Val
"Site Moderator"
|
Scott
462 posts
May 01, 2008
10:21 AM
|
Paul , that was a great post even if you do wear pirate ear rings.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
2423 posts
May 01, 2008
10:23 AM
|
I think an in-depth report published on RPDC on this issue would probably clear up all the confusion. Who wants to help?
----------
FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
"Discussion is an exchange of knowledge...argument is an exchange of ignorance". by unknown
Support This Site With Your Pigeon Product Purchase-Over 100 Pigeon Products!
|
dmitch
68 posts
May 01, 2008
10:52 AM
|
Is the Birmingham Roller register as a breed? If not i thank it will always be a debate on what one will see it as.
|
J_Star
1577 posts
May 01, 2008
11:58 AM
|
My o my...I been missing all of this fun!!!
Nothing really. True BR is in the eye of the beholder. If you think it is, then it is. If you think it is not then it is not.
As long as it kicks ass in the air, who gives a hoot what the heck it is?
Jay
|
luis
899 posts
May 01, 2008
11:59 AM
|
"Now that Luis has been cornered",Damn Tony there you go again with your OPINION!Do you have anything of relevance to back that up?
|
Bluesman
Pigeon Fancier
1198 posts
May 01, 2008
12:19 PM
|
Tony. Not trying to wear you out.I just made a general statement after everything that has been posted on this forum for the past 4 years.You all know where I stand on the color issue.
How many times has the question been asked what color is a BR suppose to be. Scott was asked it just recently and he said that he knew what wasn't suppose to be there.Simple enough.And after 4 years of discussing this all I have seen that can be proven is not to be in the BR is Pencil and Toy Stencil.I just made a statement.I have been thru this enough I wasn't trying to start anything.
Val.You as a moderator should know better than make a statement like you did about the other site.If you don't know me any better than that you have a lot to learn.
You are right respect goes both ways but you have to earn it.Making statements like you just did is uncalled for in my opinion.
If what I posted is trolling then I apoligise and willleave this site quietly. David
|
luis
900 posts
May 01, 2008
12:22 PM
|
Paul,i'm not advocating crossbreeding(It takes to long to pull off correctly), but it obviously can be done.You retain the color factor and move it forward in the direction of performance and type(in this case anyway).You stated that if bred to pure for X amount of generations you regain the BREED TITLE.Is that not so?So if i have birds that were crossed for color X amount of generations ago and bred true from there on retaining the color factor,how is anyone going to tell me they are not TRUE BRs!
Man i really need to get away from this computer and go enjoy my color birds!!LOL!!
Last Edited by on May 01, 2008 12:34 PM
|
sippi
213 posts
May 01, 2008
12:46 PM
|
Four things stick in my feeble mind while reading this debate.
One no one on this site cross breeds thier BIRMINGHAM rollers.
Two NO one knows what colors are or are not acceptable or either will not accept/admit it.
Three there will always be this debate going on about color because it just galvanizes both sides as it goes. And as human nature causes it tend to drive both side from the middle.
Four If they ever establish a color Standard for the Birmingham roller it will be the beginning of the end of the breed.
Paul I dont consider "purist" a bad word just dont know what else to call them. I respect the purist position and only ask that they respect ours. One day if I cant win with what I have I may switch back to "pure" birds. Maybe I had the wrong ones before but now I have all Turners and I really like what I am seeing. I like six and eight bird turns out of a kit of twelve. I like deep, fast, and tight. The percentages are better with these than with the Pensoms I had. Besides there are probably only a couple of handfuls of really pure lofts out there none of which are even remotely close to me.
Sippi
|
dmitch
69 posts
May 01, 2008
1:05 PM
|
Taking the fancy as a whole? Can someone help me out on this.
|
Electric-man
1524 posts
May 01, 2008
1:20 PM
|
David, you stated:
So after all this discussion on color breeding again all I can see that the Purist has come up with that is a rare color crossed into the BR from another breed is Pencil and Toy Stencil.
Appears that all the other colors have already been in the BR's according to the experts.LOL. NEXT. David
You being a moderater yourself, you don't see any sarcasm in this statement! Your not giving the purist here a little "slap"?
Is this any way for a moderater to act, on any site?
Respect? That word has a lot of meanings I guess!
----------
Val
"Site Moderator"
Last Edited by on May 01, 2008 1:36 PM
|