Scott
840 posts
Jun 29, 2008
10:10 AM
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When can you be ready pete ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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smoke747
1243 posts
Jun 29, 2008
12:03 PM
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Do you mean Pete as in PEE WEE?
smoke747
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Keith London
ICRC
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pw_rollers
10 posts
Jun 29, 2008
12:40 PM
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Scott,
I am training a kit of youngster as we speak; So as not to get everyone involved in the logistics you can use my earthlink account. As i said before, i am down, ready and willing. Seeing that you are up North it appears that we should include a wager, it might help to cover the winner's cost.
But again, we can discuss that level of detail offline. [outside of this list]
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--pw
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2008 12:41 PM
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Scott
842 posts
Jun 29, 2008
12:52 PM
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Pete,actualy I think it is fun on this list as others here enjoy watching such a challange, you want to fly a "quality" fly with some "youngsters" that you are training, your kidding right ? Let me know when you are ready , you got balls I'll you that LOL
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jun 29, 2008 12:55 PM
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pw_rollers
11 posts
Jun 29, 2008
1:05 PM
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Actually, Scott that is why I suggested doing the logistics offline. I feel more than comfortable marketing the actual fly date and time online, as well as the results. Again, i have a kit in training right now and will have a sense, soon enough, as to when we can get down.
If you really want to have the discussion on this list we should start a new post called something like " The Countdown Continues!" LOL
For the record, I have never backed away from a challenge so my word is my bond. At this point it would not matter if you were halfway around the world, I would be on my way.
Get your field trip slip signed...i don't wanna hear no excuses. LOL
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--pw
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warpspeed
47 posts
Jun 30, 2008
12:16 AM
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hey guys can i get in on the action too
abel
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Scott
846 posts
Jun 30, 2008
12:01 PM
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Good deal Pete ! sounds like we will have a blast with this regardless of the out come, once you are ready to rock let me know and we will work it out. Scott
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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pw_rollers
12 posts
Jun 30, 2008
5:14 PM
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Hey Scott I am looking forward to it and will keep you posted. If it appears that I have forgotten about it your job will be to get me back on point, and vice versa. I believe that regardless of outcome it pushes our hobby/sport in a positive direction for so many reason. However, with that being said, i will be coming at you both barrels blazing!
Fly or Die!
That's the motto I live by, and it appears that it applies to you too.
ROFL
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--pw
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George R.
910 posts
Jul 23, 2008
5:02 PM
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anyone like the twizzle ?
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ezeedad
663 posts
Jul 23, 2008
6:42 PM
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George,
Pensom liked the twizzle, and he said that "all the famous breeders" he knew also liked it... In fact, they BRED FOR IT..!!
Did Don give you my message..?? LOL...!!
Paul G (I've been unable to log on for a sec...)
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Scott
963 posts
Jul 23, 2008
7:26 PM
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Paul, if that is truely the case I would say that the breed has moved forward, but I don't buy it,at least not in later years.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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George R.
914 posts
Jul 23, 2008
8:52 PM
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hey Paul where you been ? Don gave me the message THANKS ...LOL I knew this post would bring back in here LOL
The Novice
George
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ezeedad
666 posts
Jul 24, 2008
11:31 PM
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Well Scott,
I know you think that... As for myself I believe that the Birmingham rRoller hobby has moved onward, not forward, because Pensom clearly made a definitive statement about the aerial standard of a trus Birmingham Roller... and I am sure that he never wavered in that opinion.
The three definitive features:
1. Pigeon appears as a blur
2. Wings held straight up... parallel to each other
3. Hole can be seen when viewed from the side.
The sooner we can acknowledge this standard, the better the hobby will be for it.
Paul G
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ezeedad
667 posts
Jul 24, 2008
11:33 PM
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You're welcome George... What a gentleman...!! I was having difficulties logging on. Thanks for asking...
Paul G
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gotspin7
1544 posts
Jul 25, 2008
4:04 AM
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Paul, good to see you back!
I think most breed for speed and wing position, at least I do.LOL...Paul, but as far as showing the hole I think birds of today do not have the right type for it, as the birds of way back when were bigger and had longer backs (hence the hole) In my opinion the birds today have shorter backs so all you get is a nice tight spin and no hole. What are your thoughts?
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Sal Ortiz
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Scott
969 posts
Jul 25, 2008
6:03 AM
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Paul,where does breeding towards the twizzle fit in with what you posted above ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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FRENCHROLL
234 posts
Jul 25, 2008
8:32 AM
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fashizzle ma twizzle lol
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"Maan pops trippin he want me to ask for my bike back"
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ezeedad
668 posts
Jul 25, 2008
10:13 AM
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Hi Sal,
I'm glad to be back... Thanks..
I agree with you that we need to look very carefully at type to focus on what goes into producing the correct type for showing the hole, and I agree that getting more length would help. Longer backs..... Yse,!! I think you hit the nail on the head..!! We have enough dedicated breeders, so we should take this on as our main challenge.
Paul
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2008 10:47 AM
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ezeedad
669 posts
Jul 25, 2008
10:37 AM
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Paul,where does breeding towards the twizzle fit in with what you posted above ?
Scott
Okay Scott,
Personally, I think I would be satisfied to just breed a good percentage of true rolling pigeons that have all three qualities I mentioned.... But where it fits in is from Pensom's statement that also included the twizzle as part of the "ideal" that the famous breeders who preceeded him mated their birds in an effort to produce.
Howard McCully wrote in the preface of Pensom's book that the old timers would laugh at you if your birds didn't roll in proper form (show the hole).... I guess the twizzle was the added performance that took the bird to an even higher level of excellence. That's the way I see it.
Paul
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2008 10:49 AM
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Scott
970 posts
Jul 25, 2008
1:38 PM
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That is a lot of speculation there buddy,a lttle too much thinking about what we think they thought, honestly I don't care what they thought, this breed doesn't hinge on them.
in fact I would venture to say that the bullshit ran deep about flying while they had their pigeons sitting in a show cage
Just fly the little suckers and breed for ball bearing smooth,hole or no hole, I don't care.
If one pops up showing the "true" hole,then greatb (true being the key word there) and yes I know what it is, but I'm not loosing sleep over it.
As for Twizzle,it is a control problem, nothing more and nothing less, the old timers had a few more things to learn obviously, they should have spent less time in the show room and much more time learning the mental mechanics of the roll.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2008 3:46 PM
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W@yne
1502 posts
Jul 25, 2008
1:55 PM
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I am glad Pensom went over there guys i really am.
Twizzle i think he was just yanking your chains How can someone honestly compare a twizzle roller with a high velocity quality performance pigeon when in full roll. Do we see Bob Brown , Bill Barrett, Ollie Harris mentioning The famous TWIZZLE????The list goes on and on.
someone please tell me where these guys say that a twizzle roller has some benefit and value whatsoever?
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
=====================================
www.waynegrovesrollers.piczo.com
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George R.
925 posts
Jul 25, 2008
6:57 PM
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Wayne I agree with you ..
Twizzle is Garbage and nothing else.........
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ezeedad
671 posts
Jul 25, 2008
10:11 PM
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Okay there is a lot of speculation going on.... Especially when you think that the old breeders were just showing their nirds instead of flying them... Talk about bullshit..!! That's laying it on thick... Knee deep..!! No up to your chin..!!
I can tell you that almost all the birds I got from Pensom showed the hole... I used to take it for granted. Pensom not only talked the talk he walked the walk..
As far as him coming to the U.S. he already saw that the form of competition in England was ruining the higher qualities of the B.R. over there. He even imported a kit of the competition birds to serve as an example.
Now before anyone misunderstands me. let me speculate further... I believe... or hope may be a better word, that there are breeders in England who have maintained the high standards that Pensom tried so hard to maintain.
Hopefully there are independent thinkers who will see the current pronblem for what is is. If you cannot produce the hole disregard it! And while you're at it disregard the standard as well as the person who brought the standard to us.
The rollers that have stuck most in the memoties of breeders I have talked to through the years are the ones that have showed the hole... I've never seen a real twizzle.
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George R.
927 posts
Jul 25, 2008
10:36 PM
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That's laying it on thick... Knee deep..!! No up to your chin..!!
LOL........
The Novice
George
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ezeedad
672 posts
Jul 25, 2008
10:36 PM
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Wayne,
You must not be following this thread, because there are two people who posted that they have actually witnessed a mreal twizzle... One in nthe Birmingham Roller, the other in Oriental Rollers.
I am very fortunate to have met Pensom and to have gotten birds from him. Since I flew those birds, I know that what he said is true.
Fifty years ago Pensom said that there was "an urgent" heed for the fancy as a whole to understand the qualities of "this very old established breed" But if your birds roll in a blur with wings straight up and showing a hole I suppose you can ignore Pensom.
Paul G
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George R.
928 posts
Jul 25, 2008
10:42 PM
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times have changed Paul
remember the times swimmer mike Spitz swam in the 72 olympics that were world records while winning several Gold medals ??
Those times would not even qualify now days....
The Novice
George
Last Edited by on Jul 25, 2008 10:42 PM
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W@yne
1503 posts
Jul 25, 2008
11:09 PM
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Paul G
I my self have seen a twizzle and it ain't a very nice sight to see.
You wont see a twizzle anywhere over here because if anyone did breed a pigeon that twizzled it would be disposed of in quick time.
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Regards
W@yne UK
Patience Perseverance Perfection
=====================================
www.waynegrovesrollers.piczo.com
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ezeedad
673 posts
Jul 25, 2008
11:25 PM
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Wayne,
That word has been applied to plate rolling and sloppy dishrag performance. I you obviously didn't see the real twizzle that Pensom was describing. He said that he had seen very few. I don't like the switch wing ragged flopping either...of course not.
Paul G
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ezeedad
674 posts
Jul 25, 2008
11:34 PM
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George,
Right, things change. But not always for the better. The breed began when there was no television, cars, computers.. People entertained thenselves differently.. More effort was used... there were better readers... People haven't become more intelligent..only different.
Paul G
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Scott
993 posts
Jul 26, 2008
5:51 AM
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More effort was used ? most showed the hole ? And even your pigeons don't roll with the hole, What are we going to do now Paul ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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George R.
929 posts
Jul 26, 2008
7:21 AM
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People haven't become more intelligent..only different.
I cant agree with that one Paul . Man has made some huge discoverys like DNA, Lasik , and computers, cell phones,space shuttle, ETC.
do you really expect me to believe that Humans are not smarter today then 30 years ago ?
The novice
George
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ezeedad
675 posts
Jul 26, 2008
2:47 PM
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Scott,
I consciously bred for spee, and to get the fastest I concluded that body type had to be shortened, and they had to spin like a top. I was like you. I didn't care.
But after a while it slowly dawned on me that the most memorable birds were the ones that showed the hole. That's kind of where I am now... I want to take it back to the true standard. Occasionally I have seen it here. I know where to go to get it, but I don't really want to cross...
I'm talking to you as if what I say matters to you.... I know it doesn't matter to you, but maybe someone else will read it and catch my drift...
Paul G
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Scott
998 posts
Jul 26, 2008
2:56 PM
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Paul, my money says that you will never breed such birds in any numbers,good luck.
For myself I am content on just breeding good solid Birmingham Rollers,and here and there I breed something really exceptional which is what I use for stock.
Honestly though I care more for good style more so than over all speed,now give me one with style,balance and speed and I'm a happy camper.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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ezeedad
676 posts
Jul 26, 2008
2:57 PM
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George,
Technology has advanced... that is not the same as average individual intelligence. I just retired from teaching...and reading scores, math scores are down... way down.. fron 30 years ago. Does this mean that people are less intelligent? Hmmmm... I don't think so, but they have poorer skills in hose important areas..
Seriously, sometimes I have questioned how well you and Scott have been able to grasp the concepts we have been talking about... I sort of believe you're just trying to get under my skin... but I'm really not sure....
Paul G
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ezeedad
677 posts
Jul 26, 2008
2:59 PM
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Scott, how can you say you care about style if you don't care about the hole?
PaulG
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Scott
999 posts
Jul 26, 2008
3:16 PM
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Paul, I base style from standing underneth the bird rolling ,not from the side.
As for the type, most of my birds carry some cast to them, I don't care for short cobby birds.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jul 26, 2008 3:18 PM
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black 500
29 posts
Jul 26, 2008
3:36 PM
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Matey's you realy need to be putin your twizzlers in the bin. you need spin or roll. F*ck the twizzlers. how you boys be talking bout "TWIZZLE" MAYN?
Last Edited by on Jul 26, 2008 3:38 PM
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ezeedad
678 posts
Jul 26, 2008
5:00 PM
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Black... Why don't you blokes read more than the f*^n" title..?? Then you'd know what we're really talkin about!"
ALLROYTE..?? Matey..!!?? ... I was just tellin GR... a sign of the times... people just don't bother to read anymore.. They think they got it all figured out...
Paul G
Last Edited by on Jul 26, 2008 6:43 PM
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gotspin7
1570 posts
Jul 26, 2008
5:53 PM
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Paul, you are funny MATEY!...LOL
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Sal Ortiz
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PR_rollers
1410 posts
Jul 26, 2008
9:20 PM
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Hey Matey Mon Man you Sizzle for the twizzle weasle...lol..
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Ralph
Last Edited by on Jul 26, 2008 9:21 PM
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gotspin7
1576 posts
Jul 27, 2008
5:45 AM
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Hey Ralph, you are starting to rap again?..LOL
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Sal Ortiz
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Scott
1005 posts
Jul 27, 2008
7:39 AM
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Well paul,at least that is a project well worth doing,,I'm talking the hole here not the twizzle.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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ezeedad
680 posts
Jul 27, 2008
9:18 AM
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Thanks Scott...
I think today is a first...!! You have actually agreed with two things I said. I think we should all be trying to peoduce the perfect form of the spinner.
Paul G
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black 500
30 posts
Jul 27, 2008
5:15 PM
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At least you got an idea of what i would do to a twizzler if i got my hands on it eh? hee he he he! no offence pals.
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