j .wanless
493 posts
Nov 30, 2008
11:55 AM
|
hi all
ive just got back from the all england roller club show.which as far as i know is one of the oldest + best club flys in the world.we collect our yearly journals there
thats one of the only reasons i go + also to see old friends that i may not see again all year.as im strictly a flying man + cant do with all this showing shit.i was reading through the journal and was amazed to read an old piece on all the old fanciers before + after bill pensom.which i think was sent in by another old legend in england named ken white.it made me realise why we in britain do not talk about pensom like you in the u.s do.unfortunatly ken white passed away this year so thats another old legend gone.but this is a little of what he said about bill pensom.well thought of in the u.s where he no doubt built up his own strain from birds he had already exported.but there was no pensom strain in britain.thats why i think that we in britain dont go on about him like a lot of you across the pond.we talk more about people like ken white who wrote this post + bob brown. bill barrett.ollie harris.people that where known to build there own familys of birds.i personaly think that what pensom done for the rollers should never be forgotten.but until today i did not know he never had his own strain of birds until he moved to the u.s.ken also wrote about all the other old fanciers he knew but i could not put it all on here.
|
3757
1043 posts
Nov 30, 2008
12:24 PM
|
Should not this go on the U.K post since this is the good old U.S.A? Also, it seems funny that in the interviews of Ollie Harris and Bill Barrett they mentioned who? Oh, Bill Pensom, Jim Skidmore and Bill Richards. The interview was in the Eighties and they were discussing a guy that had been dead since 1938 (Bill Richards) and another individual who died around 1950 (Skidmore). Now, you tell me why Ollie Harris still called some of his stock Skimore after 38 years since the man died!!!!! You see here we go again with skewed information. Take a look at who Ollie said had the fastest birds in England and get back to me.
|
j .wanless
494 posts
Nov 30, 2008
12:55 PM
|
hi all
3757 is this site not for all rollermen to post on from anywhere in the world?.the reason i put this post on here is because i know a lot of you u.s fanciers like to read facts about these beautiful little pigeons + from thier country of origen.and 3757
pleasw dont try + preach anything about the video to me as it was a very good friend of mine who put it together.im in no way been disrespectful to bill pensom as if you read my post properly i have great admiration for the man.i was just amazed to read a letter off another one of our great legends whom im not sure if you have heard of him.but here in england he is as well known as pensom was ken white.like i said ken wrote that when bill was here in england he was getting birds off all the top flyers + only after he moved did he build his own family of birds.now wheather you like it or not that is fact.i could not give a cuss if its right or wrong .im just stating what the last of the old greats has written in our journal.ken white was the last of the old timers that go back to the pensom days.i have no reason to doubt him.
|
gotspin7
2054 posts
Nov 30, 2008
1:11 PM
|
3757, one question.. So are you the only one here with the correct information regarding Bill Pensom?...
----------
Sal Ortiz
|
Longroller
GOLD MEMBER
34 posts
Nov 30, 2008
1:37 PM
|
Sal..I doubt it, however 3757 has probably forgot more than the bulk of us will ever know about W.P. and his birds.
|
tmac
2 posts
Nov 30, 2008
1:50 PM
|
knowledge doesnt give u the right to talk down to people no matter where they are from
|
fhtfire
1685 posts
Nov 30, 2008
1:54 PM
|
j.wanless,
Thank you for the information! It is not uncommon to see some individuals are popular in some countries and some are not....kind of like Baseball here in the U.S. very popular...but not so much in England...or Football...here is very different the your football.
I think Bill Pensom was a stud in his day...in the U.S.....but like you said....taking birds from the motherland and then coming here and making his strain is AOK....I am glad he did..lol...and I totally understand why he is not as well known there...he was just like all the other chaps starting out back in the day.
To me he is just another tool in the shed...I read his book and read it again...and take what I feel that I need.....and he was a legend for the time.....I think alot has changed since back in the day. I feel that the quality of birds and the amount of quality of birds in both countries is astounding. I think Bill Pensom would be shitting rubber nickles if he saw the amount of competition out there today. I think his jaw would drop seeing so many good spinners from loft to loft.....and he would really shit if he saw the internet...or the fact that I can have a kit of squeekers from my best pairs shipped from California to New York in two days. The amount of information is at your finger tips...still amazes me.
I think Pensom was a legend here in the U.S. just for the fact...he introduced Britians Best to the U.S.and started the chain of events that we see today. I totally understand why he would not be the cats meow in England.....becuase the birth place of the Birmingham roller had lots of cats that could meow...
Thanks for the Post
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
3757
1044 posts
Nov 30, 2008
2:02 PM
|
Wanless - My condolences to Mr. K. White as i did misread your post regarding intent. I am man enough to apoligize if I offended anyone.
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2008 2:03 PM
|
Alohazona
498 posts
Nov 30, 2008
2:14 PM
|
Mr.Wanless,
I think when you take a quote like Ken Whites,and put it to a topic that emhasizes the LACK of Pensom's family in the U.K.,it will defintely create some confusion as I think it is out of context,literaly.I'm not sure if you are trying to inject Ken White as the overall authority of roller pigeons or the club that he flew with.I think it is general knowledge based on his own writings that Bill Pensom imported to the U.S.A. rollers of several different bloodlines.If Pensom were to stay in the U.K.,he definetly would have been a Rollerman of notoriety.Ask yourself this?Did Ken White embrace the fact that Birmingham roller was being taken trans-Atlantic to the U.S.A.Did he[K.W.]feel the same a s the others who offered up birds to be imported?Did [K.W.] import birds to Bill Pensom?Mr.Wanless,sometimes things are put out of context in writings much like the computer.Will Ken Whites statement make you think any differrent about Bill Pensom or Ken White for that matter,I think it would have been only for these two men to say.The U.S.A. were definetly the benefactors of the Pensom strain,THAT is all I know for sure.....Aloha,Todd
|
Shaun
835 posts
Nov 30, 2008
2:43 PM
|
Paul, my friend, you and I go back a few years. You don't bullshit and neither do I. John Wanless is one of the modern day king rollermen in the UK. I'm not kidding. There was a time when other countries wanted only George Mason imports. Nowadays, John's birds are equally in demand. Talk to the South Africans. John is vastly experienced and has an immense comp record here.
Paul, I like that you don't jump into one camp or the other and you listen. You are well aware of the UK's rich heritage. In historical terms, John is simply trying to remind people that Pensom was just one guy amongst many at the time... but, then you already knew that.
Hey, have you played that horn lately?
Shaun
|
j .wanless
495 posts
Nov 30, 2008
3:03 PM
|
hi all
aloha i am not trying to belittle anyone or as you say
inject anyone as overall authority.the only reason i started this post was like most of you americans i was amazed to learn what i did to day after reading my journal.now weather you like it agree with it or disagree its a very popular topic + as far as im aware thats what this site is all about.ken white or bill pensom where before my time .but im very grateful for what they have done for the roller game.2 people i admire so much here in the u.k are both good friends of mine + are 79 years old .in my eyes are both legends + everyone here know them .but we dont go on about them like you all seem to do .likei said in my 1st post there was a lot of stuff from the old days .weather it would cause as much intrest as this post i dont know but i will post it if you wish.all i am doing is getting an intresting post going.
|
rtwilliams
268 posts
Nov 30, 2008
3:31 PM
|
J. Wanless
The history of this breed of pigeon, I think interests us all. Thank you for the information. I can only speak for myself, But I would be interested in more comments, and historical data, and stories, of Pensom, and those whom the Brit's consider Knowledgeable roller fanciers. To me it would be interesting to see how they interacted (Pensom and British fanciers), and how that has developed the breed here in the USA. Those breeders that Pensom got birds from deserve our thanks for with out their good birds, Pensom would have brought us garbage.
My appreciation goes to those breeders and to Pensom for bringing them here for us to enjoy.
----------
RT Williams
|
brudahpete
252 posts
Nov 30, 2008
4:13 PM
|
RT Williams, I have to agree with you, hats off to those fanciers that brought this breed to us. I think that Mr. Wanless has only the best of intentions by posting here. 3757 also has only the best intentions as well. It behooves us all to try & use all of our collective knowledge & apply it to our own lofts. Birds are as great as their keepers. Let's all be great!
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2008 4:15 PM
|
Scott
1294 posts
Nov 30, 2008
4:42 PM
|
Holy cow does really frigging matter at this point and time LOL
Of coarse we use his name alot over hear as he was our primary vehicle where the breed was concerned,personaly I could care less if he had his own established "strain" or not in England.
From what I have read history actually makes it sound like he didn't,but he was getting a footing on the foundation of building such, plus it is such a moving target to boot,but in the end does this topic really matter ?
Certainly not to me, all that matters to me is my own little world in my backyard,but next year I will be pitting them against the best once again,and I can thank Pensom for giving me the ancestery of his birds to do such.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Nov 30, 2008 4:43 PM
|
fhtfire
1686 posts
Nov 30, 2008
4:53 PM
|
Scott took his happy pills today...LOL..Scott excellent point!!
Shaun...you are right we go way back...lol when this list was just learing to walk..lOL....As a matter of fact...I did a playing the other day...I dont play as much as I used to...My fingers would not move as fast as my mind...and my tone is not what it used to be...but to the untrained ear.....I sound pretty good...LOL....Good to have you back posting with us wild Americans...LOL
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2015 posts
Nov 30, 2008
5:11 PM
|
Good post Rt....I'm pretty sure they was others who were good with a pen and were just as intelligent but Pensom was the one who decided to take pen at hand and write about these rollers to promote the breed we call Birmingham rollers and ship out the best of strain from others before him like Jim Skidmore.,Bellfield ..Bill Pensom collected birds from
old masters in the midlands and the knowledge that he had he share that with us and thats why we look up to him as a legend here in the USA well some of us do..John I know your post means well and sometimes we get caught up when we say something we wish we didn't but it takes a man to apologize like Laron (3757)did and that tells a lot of the character of that person..thanks again for posting..
----------
Ralph
|
Hector Coya
283 posts
Nov 30, 2008
5:14 PM
|
Like an old saying,, a man is not a prophet in his own land,,,
Hector Coya-SGVS
|
Shadow
285 posts
Dec 01, 2008
5:47 AM
|
In this instance John Wanless, who incidentally will in time be spoken about on this side as often as Bill Pensom is over there regarding Rollers,is in this instance the messenger for the written interview of Mr Ken White R.I.P.to those who are interested it would be fitting if they were to acquire this article and read,thereby learning much about the origin of Bill Pensoms rollers,and how he went about acquiring same,including on one occasion reputedly buying a kit of rollers for a packet of cigarettes,its informative,humorous,enlightening and no means disrespectful to anyone,just paints a clear picture of things as they were in that period of time, and in my opinion a very good article,a glimpse back to the past,to know where we are going its important to understand where we have come from.
|
kcfirl
520 posts
Dec 01, 2008
6:08 AM
|
I don't think Pensom really had his own strain over here either John. When I think about some of his most famous birds, it always seems they were a cross of something of his and something he "borrowed".
I am eternally grateful to him for getting all the best superstars he could find in England from the guys you mentioned and bringing them over here to us. And for educating us a bit on what the birds fro the blackcountry could really do.
Cheers,
Ken Firl
|
Santandercol
GOLD MEMBER
3465 posts
Dec 01, 2008
6:24 AM
|
John,
Would you please post the article you're talking of.Thanks.
----------
Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
|
j .wanless
496 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:31 AM
|
hi all
kel i would put all the article on but theres like 6 pages .theres lots of little intresting bits about how they flew masses of kits + how they caught each others birds in + kept them.as long as people want to read about it i can post the intresting bits ,but im only posting what someone else as written.so if theres anything that upsets anyone .i would like to say i dont mean to im only posting what im reading.
i would also like to thank the people who have supported me thanked me for posting this article.
|
kcfirl
521 posts
Dec 01, 2008
8:43 AM
|
Hi John,
I enjoy immensely hearing all perspectives on this sport and you and your fellow countrymen's pespective always offers somehting different than the endless repetition we get over here.
Post away!
thanks,
Ken
|
PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2019 posts
Dec 01, 2008
8:56 AM
|
Do what you may or 4ever hold your peace John.. let it rip..
----------
Ralph
|
ezeedad
833 posts
Dec 01, 2008
9:12 AM
|
Hector,
I had thought the very same thing that you posted...
"Like an old saying,, a man is not a prophet in his own land,,,"
Bill Pensom, by his overwhelming presence made himself a target for all those who were looking for a chink in his armor.
But Pensom did so many things to promote the breed. More than anyone else...on either side of the Atlantic. If his impact was quantified in terms of the number of breeders he influenced who could compare?
Probably his greatest contribution was his writings.. mainly his book.
There have probably been better breeders, Pensom would have been the first to admit this, but he did more to define the breed. He stepped forward to explain just what the breed was capable of. He set the standard high. I believe this may be why so many people are willing to reject his advice and settle for an easily acheivable goal.
Paul Gomez
Last Edited by on Dec 01, 2008 9:17 AM
|
winwardrollers
45 posts
Dec 01, 2008
10:26 AM
|
Paul...great post.
Brad winward
|
Shaun
841 posts
Dec 01, 2008
10:51 AM
|
Paul, it's true in that Pensom, due to his articulacy and willingness to put pen to paper, was able to promote the breed like no other - on both sides of the pond. The UK has always acknowledged Pensom's contribution and has had a 'Pensom Shield' by way of a flying comp.
But, the bigger picture is important, too. People like John are trying to explain that Pensom - from the US perspective - takes the bulk of the historical glory. But, because there were so many other guys who contributed so much, it's felt that they should get a mention also. Really, that's all there is to it.
In short, Pensom was one of numerous prophets in his own land.
Shaun
|
RodSD
75 posts
Dec 01, 2008
7:58 PM
|
I myself wondered Pensom's reputation abroad. I know he was very popular here in the US. But being popular in one country doesn't mean that you are famous world wide. Some people actually believe that if you are famous in their country you are famous anywhere else. Not necessarily so. It is always shocking when you go to another country and get a different perspective/opinion/view. I remember knowing how other people are naive about America--did they just said that about America?
|
Santandercol
GOLD MEMBER
3466 posts
Dec 02, 2008
4:54 AM
|
Hey Rod.Do you mean Americans being naive about America?
----------
Kel.
Rum-30 Lofts
|
gotspin7
2056 posts
Dec 02, 2008
5:44 AM
|
Paul, I do not think in this case they are tyring to knock Bill at all. I think it is just more info, more than anything. Good seeing you post again Paul.
----------
Sal Ortiz
|
ezeedad
836 posts
Dec 02, 2008
9:40 AM
|
Sal,
I didn't mean that most of the people posting on this issue were trying to knock Pensom, but I HAVE seen a lot of that on the site in general.
Shaun,
There have been some really incredible breeders who left very little information to help others in the breed. Pensom was one of the first to step out there and dig deep to pass what he knew to others. Also,Pensom mentioned many other breeders in his writings, and he had utmost respect for many of them. Actually it is mainly through his writings that I know about other great English breeders.
I would like to see the best breeders of today likewise share their "secrets" and advice in the way Pensom did.
Paul G
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2008 9:44 AM
|
Shaun
850 posts
Dec 02, 2008
10:10 AM
|
Paul, I wasn't referring to what Pensom referred to in his writings; it's more to do with the almost total emphasis in the US on this one guy.
Imagine you're learning about rock 'n roll for the first time - You get to hear Elvis but no-one else from the same era. Move on to the 1960s and you get to hear the Beatles, but no-one else. I suppose UK flyers just get a bit tired of the same old drum being beaten.
Shaun
|
Alohazona
501 posts
Dec 02, 2008
10:18 AM
|
Paul,
I have to agree with you on your above post.What always seems to get me is the ones doing the knocking,never knew or will know the man.Tom Hatcher put out some books dealing with ancestry,breeding,flying,fellowship,etc.etc.Now those books never made it to Oprah,so you have to know no one got rich off of them.Tony,has wrote a good publication on breeding better rollers.They have put the information out there,it's up to us to hold on to what is useful,and to experiment with there ideas.With the internet and such,I see the information getting out there,and the popularity of the breed increasing...Aloha,Todd
|
brudahpete
259 posts
Dec 02, 2008
10:29 AM
|
Oh please! Just because a few of you guys think history is old fashioned,doesn't mean the rest of us aren't interested. If you don't like the thread, you don't have to read it. Mr. Wanless & 3757 are both historians who have a ton of knowledge that a few of us would like to hear about and/or read. Kindly ignore the threads that you deem unimportant & let the rest of us enjoy. Just my .02 worth!
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2008 10:38 AM
|
Scott
1298 posts
Dec 02, 2008
10:50 AM
|
I think that all John was getting at is that the breed didn't just evolve around Pensom which is a
100 0/0 true.
If you go through the years of Pensoms writings you will see that his knowledge of the breed kept growing and changing.
And if all you know is his silly little book for beginners then you actually know very little about his writings or the breed in general.
But nor is what he wrote an end all where knowledge of the breed is concerned,in fact it is not much more than the basics,beyond that you are pretty much on your own.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2008 12:02 PM
|
fhtfire
1687 posts
Dec 02, 2008
10:56 AM
|
Guys PLEASE!! Nobody is knocking Pensom....The UK guys are just saying that there were others in the UK...remember BIRMINGHAM roller...BIRMINGHAM england....I think they may know a little bit more about the history of the bird....That is like a Brit trying to tell me the job of a free safety in football...lol..or how to make a good old Hamburger...lol....
Again..Pensom is a legend here because he started the ball rolling in the US and was very vocal and wrote books etc....so he was in the light more. To me...Pensom is a pionoeer and was the man of HIS DAY...not now....I have said it over and over....he would have a big smile on his face if he saw the quality of birds from loft to loft and the amount of birds that are in the air doing it.
The Brits are just saying that there were others that were just as good with the birds in UK and they need to get some credit too.....Again....Pensom was the man in the US...and because he was not in the UK does not mean they are bashing him.....I feel that there are breeders in this day and age that may know as much if not more about the birds then Pensom...again...a different era......Remember....Dick Butkus would get his clock cleaned by the linebackers of todays standards......that is why you are not allowed to hit the QB in this era of football...the linebackers of today would KILL the quarter back...they are faster, Bigger, Stronger.....Same with Babe Ruth....do you think he would have the same amount of home runs with some of the pitchers throwing 100mph fast balls and having a whole arsenal of change ups, curve balls, drop balls etc....Hell no..Bambino would step up to the Plate and have a 100mph fast ball blow right by him and his cigar would hit the ground because his mouth would be open saying what the HELL was that....LOL
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
ezeedad
837 posts
Dec 02, 2008
3:04 PM
|
Scott,
If you think that Pensom's book is just "his silly little book for beginners" then you are demonstrating the depth of your ignorance and you must not really comprehend what he wrote. Pensom's book was written on a level that has things to offer all rollermen, regardless of the length of time they have raised rollers.
PS I have the compiled writings which Tom Monson put together.
|
ezeedad
838 posts
Dec 02, 2008
3:10 PM
|
Shaun,
The emphasis on Pensom has grown from the fact that his writings were the only ones we have had which were written by a great english breeder. That and the fact that he brought top quality birds to the U.S.
I am sure that there were many more that I have never heard of... I wish there was some present day Brit who would let us know more about the history of the breed in England.
Paul Gomez
|
fhtfire
1689 posts
Dec 02, 2008
3:13 PM
|
LOL>...I think Scott Comprehends what he wrote...You do not become a Master Flier and not know what you are doing....and I will say it too..I have read his book cover to cover numerous times...and to be honest...it is a book for beginners....there is so much more to this hobby then that book....I really feel it is good reading for someone who is new to the hobby....and good reading for the old in the hobby...but things I have learned over the years on breeding..watching a kit of birds..picking stock....etc etc...are not in that book...just the basics are...
rock and ROLL
Paul
But I dont think it is Silly....LOL....
|
ezeedad
839 posts
Dec 02, 2008
3:23 PM
|
Paul the fireman...
First, clearly there ARE people knocking Pensom. There has been an element that has always resented him for whatever reason.
That being said, I don't think your comparison of rollers and human athletes flies...
There wer rollers performing to the maximum of their physical potential before any of us were born. There may be more such birds now... I won't argue that point, but there is a certain point... a limit to the physical ability of these birds to spin, and there were breeders long ago who were able to produce birds of this quality. Probably some of these are the ones we could be learning valuable things from...IF they only had written.
Paul Gomez
|
Scott
1300 posts
Dec 02, 2008
3:23 PM
|
Yes Paul,it is a book of basics,nothing more and nothing less,and yes I do comprehend what he wrote,but nor does it all hold water in the big picture, if you think it does you are naive.
If the man had a chance at a longer life and had a chance to keep learning you would have seen him change his position on many issues.
On the flip side I truely beleive that he was gifted on the depth of the breed,which gave others a launch board.
PS the first copy I had I got no less than 37-38 years ago, I was 13 or so
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2008 3:28 PM
|
Scott
1301 posts
Dec 02, 2008
3:32 PM
|
(There wer rollers performing to the maximum of their physical potential before any of us were born. There may be more such birds now... I won't argue that point, but there is a certain point... a limit to the physical ability of these birds to spin, and there were breeders long ago who were able to produce birds of this quality.)
I agree 100 0/0 ,whats the point ?
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
ezeedad
840 posts
Dec 02, 2008
4:40 PM
|
Paul,
I do recommend Pensom's book to beginners, but there is a lot in it for everyone.
Also..you said.. ....."I feel that there are breeders in this day and age that may know as much if not more about the birds then Pensom...again...a different era......"...
That could be Paul, there is no way of proving or disproving that... but if they don't get their information out to the public the way Pensom did, we will never know.
I am still not clear on what your comparison applies to.. Can you clarify..??
Soott.
Hmmm... It must have been hard for you to give Pensom credit.. Your stock has risen a bit...
I don't think Pensom would have changed his ideas much. Of course he was human and always had room to improve.
Some people claim that the breed has evolved..as if to say that the breed has improved... I believe that if you were to compare to best of the old with the best of the new, you would be looking at the same animal.
Paul G
|
fhtfire
1690 posts
Dec 02, 2008
4:56 PM
|
Paul,
My comparison to rollers and human athletes is right on....Humans can only perform to a certain level too..9.44 is as fast as a human will ever run the 100M...and that is by the experts and bio mechanics....it is also stated that a fastball will never break 115mph thrown by a human...again bio mechanics....but for sure that is a true unknown...there is a freak of nature everywhere..but 99% of the athletes (natural) will only get so strong and so fast....same goes for birds..they are only going to spin so fast...and a racer is only going to fly so fast....IF you look at the old days there was not very much knowledge of lifting weights....Amino acids..complex and simple carbs...etc etc....Yes there were athletes that were fast in the day and hit hard in the day...etc etc...but there were not as many....that is what I am trying to say....back in the day..a lineman that was fast and over 300lbs was a freak...now they are all that way.....
Same with the birds....yes there were spinners in the old days doing it like they do now....but just not as many as now days...why...more education on breeding....feeding etc etc...so my comparison to human athletes and rollers is right on...or any animal to that affect...Horses are faster....then the old days.......and there competition is fierce....
And I agree there were SOME rollers flying to the potential back in the days....but not as many as now...i am not saying the birds are better then the past...physics only allows them to spin so fast...there is just more good birds out there now and they are easier to get ahold of.
You are right..there were breeders form long ago producing top quality pigeons...I am just saying there are more producing then years past....
I have not heard anybody Knocking Pensom...but just saying there were others too....that is like saying who is the best roller flier of today....nobody can answer that question...but if somebody said Monte N and then someone else said Stan Plona and gave there reasons it would appear to be knocking Monte...or if someone said George Mason....then they would be knocking Monte and so on.....so I feel it appears that people are knocking Pensom by bringing up others that were just as knowledgeable....we just put him near and dear to our heart in the US...because he is all that most know..
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
fhtfire
1691 posts
Dec 02, 2008
5:07 PM
|
Paul,
My comparison was nothing more then giving credit to the breeders of today....He was a legend to us a stud in the day....but I feel and it is just me...that today there are more top quality breeders comparable to Pensom and I could say them under the same Breath....I am talking overall....not just comps.....comps are nothing more then any given Sunday.....but consistency in comps tells a good story...if you look at that tops years and years...Heine, Monte, Tim Decker, Ramsey Alojioni (spelling), George Mason, Ken Billings, Lavin, Turner, Stuka, Hoyle, Roe, Mee, London, Ibarra, Verdugo, Estrada...and on and on.....I am talking overall pigeon knowledge of the breed...not just winning comps...but winning comps just show you are doing it right....so...I hope I answered your question.....Of course you have to be a good writer to do a book and pensom was magic with a pen....
rock and ROLL
Paul
|
George R.
1197 posts
Dec 02, 2008
9:05 PM
|
Ezeedad said
"Scott,
If you think that Pensom's book is just "his silly little book for beginners" then you are demonstrating the depth of your ignorance and you must not really comprehend what he wrote."
man Scott I hope one day I can be as Ignorant as you and become a " MASTER FLYER"
George
|
Scott
1303 posts
Dec 02, 2008
9:12 PM
|
(Soott.
Hmmm... It must have been hard for you to give Pensom credit..)
Why would that be ? my birds all go back to Mc Cully and are considered as old line Pensoms as there are.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Dec 02, 2008 9:13 PM
|
RodSD
84 posts
Dec 03, 2008
12:42 AM
|
Hey Kel.,
I was referring to some non-Americans view about America. Some are so wrong and offensive that I kept my mouth shut. I don't want to get killed if I told them their facts are wrong because I happen to live in America and I know what it is. I actually found out that Americans are more tolerant of different cultures than other cultures.
Rod
|
RodSD
85 posts
Dec 03, 2008
12:49 AM
|
I think what Paul is saying is that we have evolved these roller pigeons to be even better than the past. For humans an example would be the world records performed at the Olympics. We literally beating our own human record. That is progress.
With respect to Pensom I think I am beginning to sense the view that he was one of those that help contribute to the rollers hobby. There are others, perhaps with equal stature, like him back in England. Here in America he did his best contribution by gathering, and breeding rollers. I think we should rather give credits to all these master fliers. I believe they deserve it!
|
ezeedad
841 posts
Dec 03, 2008
11:53 AM
|
Paul and George,
If you say can't see that calling Pensom's book a silly little book for beginners is a knock on Pensom, then there is a big gap in your credibility as far as I'm concerned. You're pissing on my leg and calling it rain...
If Scott is such an expert, then he should write a book to explain all the things that the advanced roller breeders should know... and correct the things that Pensom had all wrong. How about it Scott..??
While we are on the subject, Paul, just who out there is just as knowledgable as Pensom was? The rollermen on your list? I would bet that practically all of them learned from studying Pensom.
Paul G
|
3757
1071 posts
Dec 03, 2008
12:00 PM
|
"You're pissing on my leg and calling it rain..." LMAO
Bill Pensom has done more for the roller hobby than any man living or dead!
|