Ballrollers
1670 posts
Jan 24, 2009
8:36 PM
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Sure Scott...anything you say....right over my head.....you're the new self-proclaimed roller guhru, I guess...
....All bow before his self-righteousness and "eternal words of wisdom".......for none other rightfully speaks them.....he who possesses the only family of rollers truly worthy of breeding and flying in competition.....and he who possesses the ONLY famiy and colors truly worthy of the name Birmingham Roller......all others must be culled....must be culled...must be culled.....we're not worthy...we're not worthy...we're not worthy......Hail Scott....Hail Scott....Hail Scott.....Hail Scott.....Hail Scottt.....hail Scott....Hail Scott....Hail Scott....Hail Scott......
Last Edited by on Jan 24, 2009 8:44 PM
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Scott
1551 posts
Jan 24, 2009
8:42 PM
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Glad I could help Cliff , just think, down the road you might not have to breed hundreds of birds a year to try and keep up.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 24, 2009 8:48 PM
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Ballrollers
1671 posts
Jan 24, 2009
8:47 PM
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You are correct. It is difficult to try and keep up...with the demand for them......
Cliff
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winwardrollers
113 posts
Jan 24, 2009
9:26 PM
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What do.. you do.. with the demand for the rolldowns..cliff? Is there a soup Kitchen that you're working with.
Don't answer it is just a thought I had.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2009 4:22 PM
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Ballrollers
1673 posts
Jan 26, 2009
8:04 AM
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You should be so lucky, winward.....but half a dozen birds a year won't do much good for the soup kitchen, unfortunately.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2009 8:05 AM
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spinningdemon
236 posts
Jan 26, 2009
8:46 AM
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Some one told me that if you dont breed a few roll downs a year you are not doing it right.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
179 posts
Jan 26, 2009
8:46 AM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
is a ball and chain and nothing more,barn thumping lawn darts are easy to produce,theres the handle on the ro gene for you that some have LOL.
Genetics is about color and nothing else it plays no part what so-ever in breeding better pigeons,now you are trying to muddy the water and impress the inexperianced flyers with bullshit, but hey, it sounds impressive LOL.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Hey Scott, am I not reading this correctly or are you saying that the role of genetics is a color thing only?
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spinningdemon
237 posts
Jan 26, 2009
8:58 AM
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I am sorry,
Genitics has everything to do with breeding better pigeons!
Body shape and size=Genetics
Wing arm bone size= Genetics
Tail length= Genetics
Feather type hard or soft= Genetics
If you think that genetics has nothing to do with breeding better pigeons you had better pick yourself up off the ground from falling off that tricycle you were riding, and rub that lump and say wow.
Come on guys/gals genetics is not just about color it incompases so much more. so I say again,
Genetics has everything to do with breeding better pigeons.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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Ballrollers
1674 posts
Jan 26, 2009
9:04 AM
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Absotively posolutely, David!!
Cliff
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Scott
1570 posts
Jan 26, 2009
9:58 AM
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There are genetic tapes out there made by Turner/Roberts which I'm sure you two have, you guys must have seen something I didn't, all I saw was the breed being mongralized for color,in fact everything that I have ever seen on roller genetics evolves around color,and they are all backyard flyers.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2009 10:00 AM
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Scott
1571 posts
Jan 26, 2009
3:37 PM
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You made me friggen dizzy with this one LOL, did you have your rubber boots on also ? mine weren't high enough LOL
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 26, 2009 4:43 PM
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
181 posts
Jan 26, 2009
4:56 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
I know some one who should get registered and get involved in this discussion...I wont mention any names....John:)
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spinningdemon
244 posts
Jan 27, 2009
7:03 AM
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I have seen the Turner tapes. I have also read the genitics section in the book The Pigeon by Levi, have you heard of it?
Scott I do not know why this is so hard to understand I feel that some do understand that color is only one aspect of genetics and that genetics is not only color. I think that some want to just stir the folks up and say that I am the one mis leading and have even been called names etc. I got an e-mail yesterday from a guy in my local club saying that I was not welcome in the club because I talk to much of color! And have not flown in a comp and that I did not even have comp rollers. Come on guys you would want to force a guy out of a club because he dosent fall into the no opal in a rollers bull crap? I sent him an e-mail thanking him for his warm welcome and wishing him well with his blacks.
Clubs are to small, pigeon breeders are to few.
We need to treat each other better and not let things like the color of your spinner decide if you can be pals. I would never fault someone for there blue spinner and no one should fault me for mine just because it express's opal.
Again I hope that it sinks in this time,
Color is only one aspect of genetics, one!
Genetics has everything to do with breeding better rollers.
With out genetics we would never increase the performance of our kits ever. With out genetics the roller pigeon would be at a standstill, without genitics we all would be raising the rock dove the only "PURE BREED" out their. every variety of pigeon be it a roller or fantail is the result of genetics. I am sorry if you guys do not understand that, I will still be your pals. But please look at all of the aspects of genetics and get at least a basic understanding before you poke fun at me or others. I have said it before the hobby is way to small for hurt feelings.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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Ballrollers
1677 posts
Jan 27, 2009
7:54 AM
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David,
I have never heard anything so rediculous, David! But that is the potential outcome of the spread of the kind of self-righteousness, judgement and criticism of other roller men and their families of birds. And it will have nothing but a negative result for the hobby and it's organizations. The Pensom Roller Club tried and failed at something similar. Let's hope that we can move past this as a hobby.
Cliff
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J_Star
1860 posts
Jan 27, 2009
7:55 AM
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Dave, we understand and sorry to hear that you were booted out because of a none issue. However, we find ignorance all over and with abundance. Look at this thread, 4 pages long full of garbage and nothing to advance the knowledge of anybody but to demean families of rollers and their owners.
Jay
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spinningdemon
245 posts
Jan 27, 2009
8:34 AM
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I was not booted the remarks came from someone not in office. But still!
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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maxspin
344 posts
Jan 27, 2009
8:43 AM
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Jay,
I would have to disagree with you on 4 pages of garbage. There were a couple of real gems to be had in this discussion.
1. "The color should really tighten up in one's loft as times go by, unless you are just breeding out of many birds that are all over the board and not honing in and around your best."
Both Scott and Cliff have been honing around their best birds. Both lofts are breeding around a couple of key birds and the color has tightened up in both lofts.
2. Pair your birds based around the character of the birds in the air, not on color. It may follow, it may not.
Keith Maxwell
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J_Star
1862 posts
Jan 27, 2009
10:11 AM
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Keith, your points are well taken. Although, not every loft strategy to hone in on one bird or two to tighten up the gene pool. It is a strategy amongst many others to take your birds to different level(s). I have seen many lofts that enjoy many "B. Rollers" colors with excellent perfomer kits. It is all depend who you are talking to.
Jay
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Scott
1584 posts
Jan 27, 2009
10:15 AM
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I don't know the circumstances on this issue,but there are some clubs out there that only want serious flyers,and in some clubs you can can only miss an X of number club flys or you are not allowed membership any longer.
( I got an e-mail yesterday from a guy in my local club saying that I was not welcome in the club because I talk to much of color! And have not flown in a comp and that I did not even have comp rollers.)
(David,
I have never heard anything so rediculous,)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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winwardrollers
115 posts
Jan 27, 2009
9:08 PM
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David Curneal
You stated...I got an e-mail yesterday from a guy in my local club saying that I was not welcome in the club because I talk to much of color!
Post the name of the person who e-mailed you.
I'm in David Curneals area.. and we will let.. anyone fly.... as long as they pay their dues....you can fly any color.. any breed..pay your dues and your in.
Dave this statement of yours make me think you are back pedalling now..."I was not booted the remarks came from someone not in office."
David Curneal ...Sounds like your... exaggerating... the story.
You have missunderstood.. for sure.. those in your area.
Bwinward
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spinningdemon
246 posts
Jan 28, 2009
5:37 AM
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Oh Brad my friend I am not back pedalling, Like I said it was not someone in office or someone that I even could make me be out of the club. I have for the most part learned alot from the folks in the local club and found my times with them very informative.
All of the folks in our north region have taught me a bunch about these great little birds and have always been courteous. You, Blake, Bryan, Randy and Brandon have been awesome. From my days in salt lake county there are some hard feelings from some of the guys there. Mostley from me not agreeing on what they would say or how they would treat Norm.
Brad I hope I am misunderstanding but I will see. I have no reason to exaggerate.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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winwardrollers
116 posts
Jan 28, 2009
9:30 AM
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David Curneal
Have you ever flown in Roller competitions?
How Many times?
What year?
With who?
Bwinward
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spinningdemon
247 posts
Jan 28, 2009
10:40 AM
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Brad, I have never flown in comps. I have attended many in the late 70-80's I would pal around with Paul bradford and Norm Drecksel. Tom Monson came to a few that I attended. I went to many roller functions with John Fife sr. in those days though the Utah roller club had more show participation then fly. Boyd Holbrook, Jeff Crane, Matt Stevenson and others participated heavely in those functions.
This is the first year I was hoping to compete I was hoping to this spring but with losing so many of my birds I was not able to raise a kit. Blake and Bryan gave me some good birds but I wont fly something in comp I did not raise I am hoping to raise a kit for this fall.
This is info that you know though Brad why ask again?
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
192 posts
Jan 28, 2009
11:12 AM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Dave, If you get birds from someone as a gift or whatever, and they are good enough for comp. I dont think you could give a man a better thankyou than to fly his birds in comp.
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Scott
1593 posts
Jan 28, 2009
12:08 PM
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I agree Mike, do everything we can to get guys up and flying,there is a good chace that those birds were given to do just that "FLY".
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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winwardrollers
117 posts
Jan 28, 2009
1:11 PM
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David
I thought that you have.... never flow in Comps...just wanted to hear it from you...now I know for sure David Curneal... has never flown in Competitions...I have got it now.. straight from you.. I just didn't want to go on hear-say.
Your post say " In the air since 1973" what does that mean?
You have birds just fly what you got.
Bwinward
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spinningdemon
248 posts
Jan 28, 2009
2:02 PM
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Brad, In 1973 I got my first 2 pair jan.18 of that year from Paul Bradford there was a pair of yellows and reds of the Casperson Line. Wich I am real sad that I sold them when I got married in 83 and had to move to an apartment. I sold all of them to a guy named Frank Meyers of rivrton who just mixed them in with the rollers he had there. In 1984 6 months later I bought a home in midvale and got some flying west of england tumblers from John Fife Sr. and some grizzle rollers also. The rollers were more of the old dual purpose type that had spin but kitting ability was not there. I bought some rollers from Jay Starley he and some friends raised me a kit for a little fee. and I played with them for a while but since I lived with a freeway in my backyard the depth was to great and they hit a few windshields.In the fall I got some Orientals rollers. I lived there until 1995 when me and my family were in a train verse car accident on 90th south and 500 west. I had to sell most of my birds again since I had no time to care for them as I took care of my wife that was seriously injured in the accident. Frank Meyers took care of my orientals for me.We moved to south jordan where I lived uptill last year. When I first moved to south jordan I had only the orientals that I got from Dale Husband at the county fair. He traded me a sack of pigeon feed for a sack of oriental rollers. I also bought some Jaconetts from Danny Horner some baldheads from Norm Drecksel and some pensoms of Hugo Blass descent ( I was told ) the pensom ended up being rollers by name only I could not get them to fly. The Jaconetts and the baldheads were good rollers and I had a lot of fun with them. Since I liked my orientals best and had only time to fly one kit I sold the Jaconetts to a guy in idaho I do not remeber his name it was in Malad though I took them there on my way to guide a flyfishing trip to Daniels res. The baldheads went to my brother in california who still has them and flies them there. I went to collage and worked full time at my own Fly fishing store in Draper and had no time for comp rollers then. Six kids a disabled wife school and a job. In 2000 I sold my fishing store and finished school took a managment job at a hardware store where I worked 60 plus hours a week. I sold my home in south jordan and moved to northern utah. I left Home Depot and started a cultured stone business and work part time at malt-o-meal that brings me to now, the wife is a lot better no wheel chair etc. only 3 kids at home and a lot less of my time taken up with things more important then roller comps. Now that I have the time I think that I would enjoy flying in some comps I have several lines of comp birds that I am evaluating and hoping to decide on a family to work with exclusivly after this years breeding. So far I am impressed with the birds from Bryan the most and the Hiltons from J.P. the others are good but I do not know wich way to go just yet. I am also flying orientals and west of england flying tumblers. So to answear your question of what does in the air 1973 mean? it means I have been breeding performance pigeons since 1973.
Oh yea,
David
I thought that you have.... never flow in Comps...just wanted to hear it from you...now I know for sure David Curneal... has never flown in Competitions...I have got it now.. straight from you.. I just didn't want to go on hear-say
So what!
Mike, Scott now that I think about it you guys are right. I might just do that I have 11 from Bryan and 8 from Blake so thats a kit right. I have some that I need to cull though so I might be able to enter a small kit.
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
Last Edited by on Jan 28, 2009 2:05 PM
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