j .wanless
629 posts
Feb 07, 2009
8:08 AM
|
hi all
ive been going through quite a few of the posts on this site.and it amazes me how quite a few of you over that side
make this hobby of ours so complicated.even though its already hard enough as it is .ive flew in comps for years + won just about all our major comps on this side.with what i call simple breeding.it amazes me when i read about breeding for colour or certain eyes or crests + feathers on thier feet.its hard enough to breed good rollers without
adding all the other features as well.its ok for the back yard flyer to try + breed these other fancy traits if thats what they want to do.but for all the comp flyers just concentrate on the 1 thing + thats the roll.i know 3 w/c winners personaly + not one of them puts birds together
for the colour that they will produce.there only thoughts are when selecting thier pairs are for the end result in the air.this + tight kitting are what win comps.with a little knowledge how to fly them + also having the right birds to start with your on your way.
|
RO
204 posts
Feb 07, 2009
8:14 AM
|
I agree great post Wanless.
----------
Ro
|
0221
58 posts
Feb 07, 2009
8:16 AM
|
Gee,How there's nothing there to argue about. You would never make it over here. LOL
|
Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
265 posts
Feb 07, 2009
9:43 AM
|
----------
Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Hey John, another great post at describing personal opinions. I agree that breeding competition rollers is a complex endeavor. I believe this comp. thing needs three factors to be successful, good birds, the right day, and repetition. Sure there are other enabling factors as well but those three are top. This being stated, I know there are good crested rollers and there are good colored rollers. Crests, muffs, and color are not my thing, but I am not going discredit some one who wants them. Really if everything the opposition claims is REALLY true, where is the threat? Scott claims they cannot stand up to the test of time...If this is true, they will disappear in time...No more threat to Scott..I would think that Scott would be happy these guys are doing this...It should reduce the competition he faces... Now if Scott is worried that a family of pink pigeons will some day rule the Sky's..I can see his concern and dire fear.. I say each to his own...I wish each the best in what ever they do..
|
j .wanless
630 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:52 AM
|
hi all
mike i agree with you each to thier own + good luck.
but out of all the top flyers i personaly know all around the world.you would be amazed how many of them that win lots of comps know very little about rollers.
by that i mean we all keep it as simple as poss + take no notice at all with all the scientific stuff.
we all know how to raise + fly our birds + thats about it.i would stake my house on this that i could guarantee theres many more top flyers that win regular .that keep it simple .than there is that tell us we must do this or that + start to complicate things.i reckon lots of people who try + dictate to us on these sites have hardly ever won anything.
most people i know are not scientists or scholars or anything like that .they are just honest joe public
who hate complicating everything.but we have probaly won more comps than all the people who post on these sites put together.by not trying to be over clever + just sticking to the basics.
|
tetley
10 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:52 AM
|
hey john good post dont no me im a freind off fafboy im from bradford and mike your right the bigger the dream the bigger the leap ill get back to john i got some birds off garry temp some old stock ive tryd to fly some late breads but all to deep do you know enyone how flys eny garry temps
|
j .wanless
631 posts
Feb 07, 2009
10:59 AM
|
hi tetley
im afraid not i think paul + donna may have a few of garys,most of garys birds originated from bob browns .
but all the times i watched garys birds they never seemed over deep.
|
Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
270 posts
Feb 07, 2009
11:10 AM
|
----------
Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
John, I agree with what you have said.. I have talked to some of these guys doing this and that..They are pretty clever folks actually, and it is up to them to prove out their ideas..I think it is counter productive to attack them in their efforts... This sport of rollers needs to be able to advance as anything does... I agree that the mistakes should not be passed to other fanciers..Without these efforts we will never know what could be...I myself have learned many new things in my time away from the sport..There have been many new things on my return..There is plenty of room in this hobby for all mindsets.. It will not destroy the breed, there are many keeping the originals pure, and the failures will eventually die out...It has always been this way...
|
nicksiders
3246 posts
Feb 07, 2009
11:20 AM
|
John,
If you put two American breeders together you will find that the two of them will express three opinions.
There are a large number of fliers in the States that would agree with your opening post without hesitation. They are ofton refered to as "Purists" and in some circles are not held high in esteam over here.
----------
Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
|
Spin City USA
179 posts
Feb 07, 2009
11:25 AM
|
j.wanless, it must be that some feel the need to re-invent the wheel,although adding ballbearings will make it roll smother and longer.
----------
They gotta Spin to win.....Jay
|
Bill C
218 posts
Feb 07, 2009
11:27 AM
|
Hey J. Wanless, interesting post! See that is what makes a pigeon site interesting. If we all agreed on one thing it would be boring to the max.
You know there is a lot of new guys here all the time. I see most new guys ask questions about color but either way there are plenty of new guys who truely want to fly high performance birds and they get some darn good opinionated view on color or performance in the breeding loft. That is the value to all these posts. EDUCATION and experiences.
We all learn from trial and error but some get find out inadvance of an error. We all had a strat and nothing wrong with asking what is a roll down. But two views on what makes roll downs makes for interesting read doesn't it. Common sence will not always prevail, some are too stuburn. But at least the new guys get both view of a subject. Bill C
|
tetley
12 posts
Feb 07, 2009
11:29 AM
|
thanks john i only live two minits from paul=donna i got garrys number off pigean pete at work garry said hed send me some papper work but it never landid
|
Scott
1663 posts
Feb 07, 2009
2:23 PM
|
Man John you said a mouthful, there is no room to loose focus on what is important and you can ruin your loft in a quck minute,maintaining good stock is a chore and truely good ones are like nuggets of gold.
I don't jump on the bandwagon here for the fun of it,I do it so the new and inexperianced knows what they are putting in thier loft and not waste alot of years by not being educated.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 07, 2009 2:26 PM
|
silent187
381 posts
Feb 07, 2009
2:59 PM
|
i think everyone should shut up and just let everyone do their own thing... CAUSE that whole color and crest stuff gets annoying like i said let ppl do what they want... it aint ur birds..
|
pigeon pete
119 posts
Feb 07, 2009
3:30 PM
|
John, Good post. Another English fancier who has won just about everything in the land, Bill O'Callahan once said to me, " There is nothing complicated about breeding good rollers, you pair up your best birds;
those that roll down cull themselves, those that don't roll to your standard you cull, what else is there"?
|
norlan hollingate
1534 posts
Feb 08, 2009
10:05 AM
|
ye j.w n pete
wat about pensom
i think the books cause problems if people read to deep
n believe that if its in a book its right
stick to basics if in comps
do wat u want if its a passtime
good luck
|
Hector Coya
413 posts
Feb 08, 2009
10:19 AM
|
I dont know about you ,but i get a kick out of waching a person drop his jaw when they come over my house and see a bird in the air and say thats the fastes roller theyv see,and when it lands ,it's got a crest,
Boy what a disapointment for them,LOL
----------
Hector Coya-SGVS
The more i know mankind,the more i love my Dog,
|
Scott
1672 posts
Feb 08, 2009
12:10 PM
|
John an expert I'm not, but I can hold my own ,as you know there is no room to play around if you want to be a serious contender and fly against the best,that is a fact.
You can't guage what you read here though as many here aren't serious flyers,in fact many aren't even flyers at all.
Those that are trying to make a mark with the mutts standing on thier own are trying to do so by breeding countless birds bred hot and flying so many kits trying to compete it would make your head spin.
Scott
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2009 2:11 PM
|
Dave Szab
224 posts
Feb 08, 2009
12:56 PM
|
Only in North America has this mongrelizing, and promotion of mongrel colors, taken place with the breed. It makes us a look like a joke to the rest of the world. The real truth is that there are very few that are competitive with mongrel colored rollers, and the ones that are, usually also fly non-mongrel rollers in their kits with the mongrels, and the mongrel colored birds that they fly are birds that have been bred back to pure rollers for many generations from the mongrel cross. That is the real truth no matter how they want to spin it.
Guys can fly whatever they want to fly, it doesn't bother me, but there is no reason to have ever crossed Birmingham Rollers onto other breeds, and if you have the mongrel colors in your birds, you should be trying to breed them for better performance only, not to try to keep the mongrel colors intact.
Dave
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2009 2:31 PM
|
pigeon pete
131 posts
Feb 08, 2009
3:30 PM
|
I consider myself to be a reasonable and philosophical guy, and looking at both sides of this argument isn't too easy for some of us. If I discovered tommorrow that someone had crossed something into my family of rollers before I got them, I would be best disapointed but would probably carry on with the family, because they produce birds of the quality I like, and I know the traits that are in my birds. Until that happens and even then, I would strongly advise flyers to obtain birds that are bred from as many generations of quality rollers as they are able to acertain.
I can only trace my original family back to 1967, so that will just have to do.
Dave,
I'm sure there are mongelizers in England but they would be back yard flyers that probably don't even realise that some of us regard the BR as a breed, and so they wouldn't bother going onto a roller forum.
|
Scott
1677 posts
Feb 08, 2009
4:17 PM
|
Pete, the chances of that are slim to none over there,normaly around here it is beginners and backyard flyers buying birds from here and there that end up with such birds,it is highly frowned on by many as it should be.
Once and if they get serious then they normaly dump the kiddie birds and search out a solid family.
I was asked a while back if any strange colors or anything ever pops up, I thought it a odd question as why would anything ever pop up,thats the farthest thing from my mind and it was asked almost like a yes answer was expected,that is scarey.
This family has been inbreed linebreed well over 30 years by Kenny, and I have been working a family line/inbreeding out of that same family for well over a decade.
I honestly don't think they understand how seriously the breed is taken by many of us,and those before us, which is a shame.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2009 4:24 PM
|
Ballrollers
1740 posts
Feb 08, 2009
7:16 PM
|
Dave,
I see that you, too, are still persisting in your own line of bull with regard to this family of birds. I know it hurts you and Scott to see your kits gets beat in the national finals by a kit of 15 Andalusians, two rr and three balck white flights out of indigo parents. LOL! I guess I'd be making stuff up too, about the family not holding up and rolling down, and all that other crap, if I were in your shoes...or Scott's for that matter. LOL!
You are right that in the development of a rare factor roller, that the F-1 (since Turner used a roller already carrying a rare factor, he was using a much higher F number, but he treated as an F-1 cross), the F-1 cross is bred back to the pure line numerous time over a period of years with performance flying evaluation to prove the factor has been incorporated together. It can take anywhere from 6-10 years depending on the complexity of the factor. But after that, you fly and breed them like any other roller with any other factor. That's how turner did it, that's how Jay did it, and that's how I do it. Yes, we all have our side-projects, sorta like yous with Ivan's birds. It depends on what birds you put in the breeding loft as to what factors are carried forward. I agree that I have seldom if ever seen a 20 bird kit with each bird exhibiting a rare factor But then again I have seen few kits where all 20 birds look like peas in a pod either. Are you saying if you cannot identify a rare factor, it's not a mongrel? 100% of the competition flyers I know put the best performers in their kit without regard to colors. I bet you do to. My family has standard colors (mostly out of modified color parents) and modified colors, thus the family has both. Are you saying the standard colors are something different even though they come from the same color modified parents within the same family? I don't think you know WHAT you are taliking about, really....just color bashing becasue it's the popular thing to do. Hehehehehe....I breed for performance, not colors. The fancy colors just pop up. The show guys breed for colors, the performance guys that I know don't. A few guys can do both.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Feb 08, 2009 7:20 PM
|
Dave Szab
227 posts
Feb 08, 2009
7:52 PM
|
Cliff,
Even though I have made the WC and NBRC finals 11 times, I only had good weather 4 times. In 2 of those finals, I finished 12th and 18th in the World Cup Finals, in a 3rd one I finished 15th in the NBRC 20 bird Finals, and in the 4th one my birds were completely flat in a WC Final, which was all my fault. You know as well as I that weather, BOPs, and luck play a huge part in every competition fly. You have done a great job with your birds in a short while, and I am glad that you had a few good finals flies, but that doesn't prove anything about whether mongrel colored kits are performing better than non-mongrel colored kits. We all have culls, and we all have bad days.
Side projects are not the issue, it's the promotion by some that there was nothing wrong with crossing in other breeds of pigeons onto Birmingham Rollers to get color factors that were not present in the Birminghams. That was completely wrong in my book, and I don't see how you can say that crossing onto other breeds was done for performance, as you claim that Turner only bred with performance in mind. That makes no sense to me.
Dave
|
Scott
1682 posts
Feb 08, 2009
8:24 PM
|
Who ?
( A few guys can do both.)
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2455 posts
Feb 08, 2009
11:14 PM
|
John good post ..I always say >>>K.I.S.S.Keep It Stupid Simple..
----------
Ralph
|
RodSD
180 posts
Feb 09, 2009
1:15 AM
|
If I am going to compete, then I will breed rollers only for flying performance irrespective of colors. If I am going to compete for a show, then I will breed colors/look irrespective of performance. If I decided to do both, then perhaps I am making it harder than it is for myself. So K.I.S.S.
|
Ballrollers
1741 posts
Feb 09, 2009
6:09 AM
|
Exactly, Rod. I, too, picked a family of rollers based on what I saw in the air....and I have been fairly successful with them....and now I gotta listen to this bullshite from these guys about my family of rollers. So be prepared!.....A committment to performance is not enough for the pigeon police...first it has to be of a certain pedigree or color (or lack thereof) for them.....and secondly it has to perform...they just like to pretend that performance is first. I think that's pretty obvious.
Dave,
The only men I have talked to or read about DID NOT USE other breeds, to successfully transfer color factors to their competition Rollers. They used color factors already in a ROLLER. James Turner added a few color factors to his Pensom based family of Rollers, no matter how perfect the color was, it had to perform or it did not go forward in the long evaluation process. Performance was the first thing he evaluated, then he worked color. I know it worked or I wouldn't be flying this family of birds. There was NO OTHER BREEDS of pigeons used by the few successful men who added color factors to their birds. THEY USED A ROLLER THAT ALREADY CARRIED THE FACTOR THEY WANTED TO WORK WITH. Try to get that through your thick skulls. Yes, there were side projects, as experiments, using non-roller breeds, just like Pensom did....but those failed and were not incorpotated or used any longer. NO ONE should condone breed-crossing. I don't! On the other hand, neither am I committed to "pedigree", which has been a millstone around the neck of many an unwary roller man. This particular breed of pigeons is built around performance. If I saw a roller that had extremely high levels of performance, I appreciate that bird regardless of color or pedigree. Both are secondary. I have seen in my loft that color has little to do with performance. Good rollers can be any color.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2009 6:11 AM
|
Dave Szab
228 posts
Feb 09, 2009
7:07 AM
|
Cliff,
I am not saying that you, Jay, Clay, or JoeBob are crossing other breeds into your birds. I know that you guys breed with performance first in your birds, NOT for a specific color. I know you guys and I trust you guys when you say you breed for performance only. I don't trust what was done in the past by guys that I don't know, because the old roller hobby was full of bullshit and lies, there was no internet, no competitions, no put up or shut up attitude like we have today. They were all legends in their own minds.
What I am saying is that somewhere down the line SOMEBODY crossed in another breed to get those non-Birmingham Roller colors into them. That was NOT with performance in mind, AND I'm sure that down that line BEFORE you guys got them, many of the guys that had them, bred them back to crosses to keep the mongrel color, instead of breeding them back to pure BRs. That means that the original non-roller genes were kept more prominent in the gene pool, and therefore these birds were not always bred for performance and are not as close to pure as many of you think. It will be interesting to see what happens to these birds if you still are using them 10 to 20 years down the road, if you continue to only breed them together for performance only and tighten up the gene pool.
You have seen my set-up. I only breed out of 8 pair, no more, no less. I only raise on average about 35 babies each year for myself. Over the winter, all I ever keep is about 30 birds in a holdover kit, and my 8 pairs of breeders, and I lock down for at least 5 months during the winter. For the 6 or 7 months that I actually do fly, I am only flying my holdover kit and that year's babies. With this small set-up, I am still very consistent in winning in competition. You say that you fly 9 kits, I don't know how many pairs you breed from or how many babies you breed, but I'm sure it is plenty if you are flying 9 kits, AND you can fly mostly year round, and probably breed year round too if you wanted to. My question is, do you think that if you tightened up your gene pool around one of these mongrel colors, and bred the numbers that I do, and flew in the conditions that I do, that you would still be able to be as competitive in the flys as you are? In my opinion, and it's only an OPINION, I don't think the mongrel colored birds would hold up. I know that in the right hands, the pure Birminghams would hold up, because it has been done many times around the world by many of the top flyers.
Dave
|
winwardrollers
120 posts
Feb 09, 2009
7:43 AM
|
Cliff
Were would the color factored birds of Turners be without the Pensom based birds in the terms of quality rollers? It a simple answer and you know it.
Cliff your teaching the newbie to breed batches of culls...it may have worked for you cliff that is still the debate and over time will prove it's self...but there is 10, 50, 100, 1000 breeder out there compared to your project that are passing color breeding projects off like popsicles on a hot summer day.. that are no more than mongrel culls. You know that Cliff.
Your statement above "Good rollers can be any color" is a safe statement..what is the scale.. Good..Better..and Best.
Bwinward
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2009 8:08 AM
|
spinningdemon
312 posts
Feb 09, 2009
8:05 AM
|
Here is an observation and a question.
I went to see a guys birds fly before I decided on what family of birds I wanted to try for my entrance to the comp thing. I noticed in his kit 2 birds that were rolling real well and were getting right back up to the kit and doing it all over again.
I commented on the birds several times and was told how they were two of his best birds. They appeared to be both blue pigeons in the air. Well I stayed there for a while and talked pigeons and when the birds landed I noticed that the 2 birds had reduced or opal in them. I asked and was told that it was reduced and it had been in the family of birds for quit some time. Then he said I dont talk much about them on fly days or with most of the people that come over. I asked why and he said he dosent like being rassed.
So theres the story, now the question.
Do you think that there are not a lot of folks flying these birds because of,
1- They are teased and ridiculed when people notice the factors?
2- People are not willing to let other people enjoy there birds the way the breeder feels like?
3- People are scarred of what others will say about what they have in there loft?
4- Few people have really put the time in, concetrated the genes tight enough, or in other words lack dedication to what they are trying to do?
5- The ones that have succeeded are bashed for there accoplishemints ? { Some so much that they have left the comp hobby }
6- Or? And dont just say its because Yellow sucks. I want a real answear, and no saying that a guy that has an opal is a wack job is not a real answear. Saying any one that is idotic enough to raise a reduced should be voted into the mongrel hall of shame. Is also not a real answear. If you do not have a real answer not reply. Saying there is no one flying yellows or almonds in comps is really the question I want to know why. I have seen many not one or two but many birds that could roll and roll well in just about every color, and I have seen blue checks that I would not wipe my butt with that had pedigrees going back to Adam.
Again just incase you were wondering I am new to comps, but I tell you what the politics of this game is making no sense at all. I raised birds through the dual purpose debates and this stuff I have been reading makes that look like nothing.
I agree with some of what is posted above but the majority is the same old because colors suck lame duck answer so I just want someone to write something other then the, I am going to join the color sucks band wagon deal.
In the comp birds I have reduced in the genes but none of my birds express it but I tell you what if one pops up and it has the motor you know I am going to use it.
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2009 8:07 AM
|
winwardrollers
121 posts
Feb 09, 2009
8:22 AM
|
Dave
To answer your questions simple...Your a Color Breeder..after reading your posts you have had every pigeon under the sun never kept anything long enough to even have any.. base or bearing.. for any specific breed of pigeon. You love the birds and good luck with what ever you are persuing.
Bwinward
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2009 8:36 AM
|
spinningdemon
314 posts
Feb 09, 2009
9:21 AM
|
Brad your right I have only had comp rollers for less then a year. I have had rollers though and other performers for quite some time lets see 35+ years
I have had my orientals since 1995 same family same strain so thats 13 years of breeding and flying them.
I like your last line tough,
"You love the birds and good luck with what ever you are persuing." That is the only thing that you have said to me that was not an attack.
I do not know why you have a problem with me. I have told you time and time again that you have great birds, but you feel you need to ridicule me? Your response was not what I was looking for I have always looked to you for advice and help in my persuit of fun but wow I cant get any knowledge from you because most your responses are snide remarks wich is to bad since I know that you have some sound roller knowledge, but you choose to spread crap instead of being helpful.
Brad you know I want to be roller pals, but I think you want to out on your own fence. Wich is fine, and I will still your quote for you,
"You love the birds and good luck with what ever you are persuing."
I am still looking for a real response.
----------
David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
|
winwardrollers
122 posts
Feb 09, 2009
10:25 AM
|
Dave
What is your.. underline theme... of post 312 above?
Read it over and Come up with.. a simple conclusion.
This thread is about keeping it simple.
Take out a piece of paper.. or two in you case.. and make a list of all the breeds of pigeon you have owned over the years..what it boils down to is your a.. Flash in the Pan..In and out...We see this all the time in the rollers..Flash in the pans..your only one of many...
Now that you have been in the comp birds for a year you want to Tell these roller guys... that have breed one specific breed of Rollers for year and have placed well in comp... you can breed.. any color... of SpinningDemon rollers that will stay with the best of them. You simple don't have the experiance in competetion flying or breeding.
You can decide if I'm.. attacking, ridiculing, or disagreeing with you and it sounds like you have made your decision.
bwinward
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2009 10:32 AM
|
Hector Coya
415 posts
Feb 09, 2009
10:48 AM
|
Ive had rollers since 1974,got my Bob Scott's in 1982,
Ive had rollers from many familys from Lemyer to Pensom,Plona,from many top breeders.
I have 2 open loft's one with my Bob Scott's and the other with everything,from Ople to crest to andelusians to evry color around.
Ive had birds from these so called purist when ever the Opertunity arrives,just to compare to what i have.
A friend of mine bought a pair from the NBRC auction last year,from one of the top guys around,i will not say from who but they where pure.
This person was so proud of winning the bid ,he let me breed them first becouse he figured i whould do a better job,i dont know.
I bred a few rounds and gave him the pair back,now these where from one of the top guys we all know.
Let me say ,you dont see me running outside and getting rid of my Oples or crest,these 4 that i bred havent done crap,compared to anything i got.if thats what the purise rather have becouse of a great pedegree,thats prety sad.
the odds that 4 out of 4 that i bred havent done anything when i have younger birds rolling there crest off, dosnt impress me they my work for that big name person,but i rather keep it simple if they dont roll,i dont cear how pure they are.
Hector Coya-SGVS
----------
The more i know mankind,the more i love my Dog,
|
norlan hollingate
1538 posts
Feb 09, 2009
10:57 AM
|
now then lads
wat does it all matter wat coulor /crest/looks/featherd feet
aslong as they do it in the sky thats wat matters
were any of u there when the origional birmingham rollers
were CREATED i guess not so we can say wats right n wrong
there is to much me me me me in rollers if its not your way its the wrong way
if ur new to the sport n u win comps its beginers luck
if u have had them 10 yrs n won nowt you are a t-----
to many people tell u wat to do but it is only usually because it worked for them does not g/tee it will work for u
i think people should do there own thing n the others shut up
i have lisernd to all the top men in england tried some of the things they said but then done my own
watever u want to do if it works for u then good but dont ram it down other peoples throats
there is no use falling out with others just cos they dont agree with your ways
ive been told of people crossing into b/r with parlour rollers/badges/ tipplers
wat was used origionally i dont think we will ever know 100%
so lads do it the way u want if successfull then great if not hard luck
we are all individuals n that is the way to stay
as i have said before if there was any one man who has won everything for the last 10 years then yes listern 100%to wat that man says [that man will never exist]
untill someone finds the origional breeding records to create the birmingham roller then all the know it alls should keep quiet
im sure that when i was in s/africa there is a chap who has had b/r for some 60 +years ?
others say they were in asia many many years ago
how will we ever get to the bottom of b/r lets not
lets look to the future n do wat u want to produce the
TIGHTEST FASTEST DEEPEST TOP KITTING TEAM EVER SEEN
good luck
norman
|
JDA
GOLD MEMBER
163 posts
Feb 09, 2009
10:59 AM
|
Hector- Hang on to them and hang on to the seat of your paints , for they just could be the birds that have been talked about that come in late, one year or so and are the real keepers.
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2009 11:03 AM
|
winwardrollers
123 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:06 AM
|
Hector
Amazed how you can come up with a conclusion of someones birds in one breeding season..did you consult with the breeder of the birds or did you just.. Flash in the Pan.. the project.
It good to hear a one in a thousand success stories.
bwinward
|
Ballrollers
1743 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:06 AM
|
Thank you, Norman, for that breath of fresh air from accross the water!
Cliff
|
Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
282 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:09 AM
|
----------
Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
I am starting to see that the real experts are the guys flying comp. all the time......Not the old guy down the street who has been breeding rollers for 50 years, and is sick of the politics of comp...
|
Scott
1687 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:11 AM
|
Hector, well then you should be kicken ass in the major flys,good luck .
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2009 11:13 AM
|
Hector Coya
416 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:13 AM
|
No i came to the conclusion with these 4 birds becouse i also had high expectation for them,
like i said ive had many familys,and to point out the opisit of my last post,a friend of mine gave me 4 youngsters last year from some pairs be bought from Dave Henderson,he just brought these four tiny squeeckers and told me to fly them,well i flew them and to be honest they where beutifull i liked everything about them ,came in to the roll early,didnt bump,kit well ,so i have seen good birds from some big names,im not knocking them all, I never met Henderson and dont know what family he has but they sure worked good with my stuff.
Hector Coya-SGVS
----------
The more i know mankind,the more i love my Dog,
|
Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
283 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:13 AM
|
----------
Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
I have heard a lot of comments in regards to competition detroying the hobby. It does look as though it may be destroyed from the inside...
|
Ballrollers
1744 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:14 AM
|
Brad,
You said, "Cliff, Were would the color factored birds of Turners be without the Pensom based birds in the terms of quality rollers? It a simple answer and you know it." Absolutely! The Pensom and Lloyd Thompson birds, along with Turner's skill in breeding those birds for performance, were the keys to the quality performance that we see in this family today. I have never said anything otherwise. Where'd you get the nutty idea that I thought anything else? You guys make so many assumptions without any basis.....I have written several aricles about the development of this family. If you read them, and paid more attention to what I say in my posts, rather than reacting emotionally, perhaps you wouldn't be making wild accusations without any merit. This only makes you look silly.
Just like your statement about so many color breeders passing off culls...I don't know of anyone who does this...how many do you, personally, know of? I think it's a figment of your imagination....a fear.....Far more culls have been passed off as Birmingham Rollers based on "pure pedigree" than color breeders could manufacture in the next twenty years! Does that not bother you any?
Cliff
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2009 11:17 AM
|
Hector Coya
417 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:17 AM
|
JDA
Why whould i hang on to those ,if i needed a new family i whould go with what works for me,like the Hendersons,i lost all 4 to the hawks,but if i wanted new blood thats what worked for me, why wait a year for the others with the Falcons the whay we have them here.Hector Coya-SGVS
----------
The more i know mankind,the more i love my Dog,
|
Hector Coya
418 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:22 AM
|
I guess its coincidence or pure luck that all 4 from one top guy havent done more than a flip in a year and the 4 Hendersons the other friend gave me at the same time all where exeptional birds.
Hector Coya-SGVS
----------
The more i know mankind,the more i love my Dog,
|
Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
284 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:29 AM
|
----------
Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
I picked up a yellow grizzle last November and fianally flew him on Saturday morning...He never made it back to the kit coop..I got a call from the guy I got him from saying he was sitting on his kit box..This is about 7 miles as the crow flies and about 4 months....Does this show any intelligence etc..?
|
Scott
1688 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:33 AM
|
Hector, what is it supposed to mean, that the pair didn't produce ? how does that represent the family ?
Myself I search hard for good producers and it is rare that a pair will throw me 4 out of 4 exceptional birds.
----------
Just my Opinion
Scott
|
winwardrollers
124 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:41 AM
|
Cliff
You stated.."Far more culls have been passed off as Birmingham Rollers based on "pure pedigree" than color breeders could manufacture in the next twenty years! Does that not bother you any?"
That would bother me...cliff..just not sure that is the case. Sounds like your pretty sure of it though.
Bwinward
Last Edited by on Feb 09, 2009 11:43 AM
|
Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
285 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:43 AM
|
----------
Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Hey Scott, you could extend your search area...Might make it a little easier to find good breeders...LOL
|
Hector Coya
419 posts
Feb 09, 2009
11:45 AM
|
True Mike,LOL
----------
The more i know mankind,the more i love my Dog,
|