Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
532 posts
Apr 20, 2009
12:42 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Ha Ha Scott..LOL..LOL.. If that bird does not show strength and character nothing does..LOL point out her weaknesses...I could use photoshop and turn her into a blue check if that would help..LOL
Mike,she looks weak all the way around.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
2075 posts
Apr 20, 2009
1:02 PM
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Mike she look weak, color has nothing to do with anything, lets see a better picture of her head , you already indicated that she is controled by the roll.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
2076 posts
Apr 20, 2009
1:14 PM
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From the picture she shows very weak expression.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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rollerman132
342 posts
Apr 20, 2009
1:39 PM
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Cliff
Scott does have a point; there isn’t anyone who fly’s a full kit of pencils, opals, or anything else that’s considered rare colored why is that? Are they poor producers? Just asking LOL
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
533 posts
Apr 20, 2009
1:46 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
rollerman132, I have not seen a full kit of any one color red, blue, or green..Have you?
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rollerman132
343 posts
Apr 20, 2009
1:59 PM
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That’s not the point Mike, if they are just as good as the pure rollers, why not fly a 20 bird kit of them? There has to be someone out there that can do that!
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rollerman132
344 posts
Apr 20, 2009
2:05 PM
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So you have a few them in the kit, can you really give them all the credit for a good score? Let’s be real here.
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rollerman132
345 posts
Apr 20, 2009
2:11 PM
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When a person can put up a 20-bird kit of them, than I’ll believe that their just as good, but not till then sorry.
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
534 posts
Apr 20, 2009
2:38 PM
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
Lets be honest then...put up a kit of 20 bluebars..The point is that no one breeds just that color..Nobody I am aware of anyway..
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Scott
2077 posts
Apr 20, 2009
2:41 PM
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Mike, I think his point is all rare color regardless of what the color is, it aint happening, but it can and will with non mutz.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 2:50 PM
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rollerman132
346 posts
Apr 20, 2009
3:02 PM
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Exactly what I mean Scott, when I see a kit with 5 opals, 5 reduced, 5 Andy’s, and 5 stencils get a score higher then 300, ill start to believe, anything higher 600 and I’ll take my hat off, till then no cigar LOL.
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rollerman132
347 posts
Apr 20, 2009
3:13 PM
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There has to be someone out there that can pull this off! Here’s your chance to shut the mouths of all the non-believers once and for all! 20 birds ALL MUTZ!
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LittleJohn
85 posts
Apr 20, 2009
3:44 PM
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This is getting more pathetic by the day. Scott, you have established the fact that you have an issue with your ego...get over it dude.
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0221
215 posts
Apr 20, 2009
3:57 PM
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LittleJohn, enjoy the humor. Its just there way of fighting the frustration of preditors and the gitters of getting ready for the W.C.
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2883 posts
Apr 20, 2009
3:58 PM
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rolerman132 Cliff said he did.
"Ralph,
That's all I ever compete with...have done so since 2005. I have been fortunate enough to win my region for the last four major flys (National Championship and World Cup) for the last two years. Our region is pretty tough...two Master Flyers, one World Cup Champions, three NBRC National Champs, so that tells me something about my birds. A flyer with "problem birds that are unstable, don't kit, land early, and don't hold up", as Scott says, might get lucky in one fly, but not four in a row. Their record speaks for itself...much louder than Scott's imagination and mantra. The best I have done (and please pardon my memory) is, I believe, 3rd in the finals of the National Championship and 12th or 13th in the World Cup finals. The trick for me, now, is trying to keep them on point during the short interval between the regionals and the finals. I'm just glad I have had the practice! LOL!
Cliff
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Ralph.
The greatest use of your life is so you live your life so that the use of your life will outlive your life, In other words what you going to leave behind legacy or Dust....
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
2884 posts
Apr 20, 2009
4:00 PM
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Now bow your head and pass the cigars lol..
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Ralph.
The greatest use of your life is so you live your life so that the use of your life will outlive your life, In other words what you going to leave behind legacy or Dust....
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Scott
2078 posts
Apr 20, 2009
4:16 PM
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But you don't see me hiding behind a user name throwing little jabs , do you dude ?
(This is getting more pathetic by the day. Scott, you have established the fact that you have an issue with your ego...get over it dude. )
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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rollerman132
348 posts
Apr 20, 2009
4:45 PM
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Before I bow my head & pass out the cigars lol, the kit was flown with out one red chek, blue chk, rec red in the bunch? What was the score?
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Scott
2080 posts
Apr 20, 2009
4:55 PM
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scores mean nothing, all that matters is the finals
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
535 posts
Apr 20, 2009
4:55 PM
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Scott, this hen is a late hatch 2008 her problem is not being able to keep up with the kit like I want. She has been in the air about 4 month. 25-30 feet and fast as hell, she has never been the first bird to land..
Rollerman are you on drugs or what? What are you trying to prove?
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
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LittleJohn
86 posts
Apr 20, 2009
4:56 PM
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Hiding behind a user name? I dont think so scooter. I aint hiding behind anything. You have issues, and you know it. Deal with them first, then come in here and give people useful information. So far I haven't seen that from you. But I am a newbie, so maybe it happened in your past life, who knows? All I know is I aint seein' it now.
LittleJohn
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Scott
2081 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:01 PM
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Mike, just keep her fed up and flying hard, she will either get a handle on it or fall apart, either or , only time will tell
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
536 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:06 PM
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Scott, I would rather see winners of many flys not just the big one. Consistancy is the real deal.
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
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Scott
2082 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:11 PM
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John, you may want to find a 12 year old to show you how to use the delete key, now there is some useful information for ya, sounds like you got stuck with mongrel color birds ,sorry to hear that, it shouldn't be happening.
(Hiding behind a user name? I dont think so scooter. I aint hiding behind anything. You have issues, and you know it. Deal with them first, then come in here and give people useful information. So far I haven't seen that from you. But I am a newbie, so maybe it happened in your past life, who knows? All I know is I aint seein' it now.
LittleJohn )
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 5:25 PM
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Scott
2083 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:12 PM
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Exactly Mike , consistancy .
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
537 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:28 PM
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Hey all, most pigeon people are good folks. Competition and colors seem to bring out the rut in most of us...LOL
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
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Ty Coleman
626 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:29 PM
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Scott, John is new to the hobby and just calling BS as he see's it, but before you knock his birds, I have seen pics of them, guess what ? Not the first mutt gene in the bunch, probably as pure as your's. He has a few nice red checks.
[John, you may want to find a 12 year old to show you how to use the delete key, now there is some useful information for ya, sounds like you got stuck with mongrel color birds ,sorry to hear that, it shouldn't be happening.]
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 5:32 PM
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Ty Coleman
627 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:31 PM
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Scott, over the past few years wouldnt you say Cliff has been consistant ?
[Exactly Mike , consistancy] .
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Scott
2084 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:37 PM
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Ty, Cliff has done well on a regional level, I tend to bank everything on the finals of the major flys though and give little thought to local and regional flys.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Scott
2085 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:39 PM
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Ty, I don't have a clue who he is or what his birds are ,as far as I know he is a cross dressing tranvestite sheep herder from Wyoming, don't really know, like I said he just hides and jabs.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 5:43 PM
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Ty Coleman
628 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:48 PM
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Scott, my pedigrees go all the way back to the 70's. Most birds bands go back to the IRC,and PFRC. They all go back to a few kea bird. Since the 70's this family has been line bred very heavily and even inbred a few times [not by James] with great results. Every family has flaws as i'm sure yours does also and ANY family can be handled poorly or go under poor loft management and be ruined. So until you have stood under a kit of Mr James birds, or Cliff's or mine day in and day out quit kicking them because you have no clue!
Let's just say you sold a kit of birds to one of the guy's in our local club and he got beat like a red headed step child everytime he flew them. Would that give me the right to trash you and your birds? I'll answer that for you, no it would not it would mean the guy could not handle them correctly and get there full potential out of them.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
538 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:50 PM
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Scott, you are definately in rut today...LOL..
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
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Lipper
GOLD MEMBER
539 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:54 PM
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Littlejohn, scott is really a pretty good egg willing to help anybody. M.ost here don't mind getting hassled as long as there is a name by the hassler.
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Mike Trevis
The Bigger the Dream the Bigger the Leap
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Scott
2086 posts
Apr 20, 2009
5:56 PM
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Good luck Ty , by the way , what do you consider those Barless that are posted on the NPRA ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Ty Coleman
629 posts
Apr 20, 2009
6:01 PM
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A side project that hasnt worked out. They are not in the family and being I just lost the cock bird the project ended. And to add a corection to your post it's the NPRO, I was kicked out of the NPRA.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 6:03 PM
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Ty Coleman
630 posts
Apr 20, 2009
6:08 PM
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To clarify my [project] I got them as rollers bred them together and flew out the offspring, never did I cross them into my family.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Scott
2088 posts
Apr 20, 2009
6:27 PM
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You gotta be frigging kidding, what am I supposed to do about this new tatoo, when the hell did you change the name ???
(And to add a corection to your post it's the NPRO,)
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Ty Coleman
631 posts
Apr 20, 2009
6:44 PM
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Long Story, lol The NPRA is run by David Strait now. They decided to change forums and homepages so I kept the old forum running and renamed it the NPRO. I guess you will have to get a rain cloud over your tatoo,lol
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Scott
2089 posts
Apr 20, 2009
6:52 PM
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Why they toss you out ? weren't you pres ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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rollerman132
349 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:04 PM
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All I asked is the score, and I get accused of being on drugs LOL. I ask a simple question like, were all the kit birds’ mutz, and I get accused of trying to prove something, now that hurts Mike LOL LOL.
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rollerman132
350 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:05 PM
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Scott I feel for you man LOL
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Scott
2091 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:06 PM
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Dont come here on drugs
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
1891 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:20 PM
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Rollerman,
Just for you on 5-2-08: 7-5-7-5-5-6-8-8-6-5-6-11-5-5-5-5-7-5-7-6-8-5-13-7-7-8-5-6-5-7-10-16-12-9-5
1.4 Quality; 1.5 Depth; total score: 850.5
There were two recessive reds in the kit, 16 Andalusians, two black badges flights. The cock who sired them is a black white flight out of a long line of Turner's Rambo line. The hen was a rr from Joe Bob Stuka's family.
Hope this helps,
Cliff
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
1892 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:24 PM
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rollerman 132
Go re-read post 1858 in this thread. That is why you can't see it. They are right before your eyes but they are not all expressed text book phenotypes with the rare factor, from 2 rare-factored parents. It is not passed on to all their offspring.
It is also rare to see a whole kit of 100% pure Birmingham Rollers that is all one color and all marked the same. Yes it happens but rarely. Same with a kit of Birmingham Rollers that are less than 100% pure and carry a few rare factors. There is different expressions for the same factor scattered through the kit.
This discussion is not for you to believe anything concerning rare factors. All I am saying is there are 100% pure Birmingham Rollers with common factors identified in the original imports and there are Birmingham Rollers that are less than 100% pure and have a few rare factors that were added in by way of a cross.
Both can perform. We as a fancy has the choice to chose any family we care to work with. If we work towards the aerial standard, regardless of color, we will enjoy our birds.
I can't make it much plainer than that.
Just for you on 5-2-08: 7-5-7-5-5-6-8-8-6-5-6-11-5-5-5-5-7-5-7-6-8-5-13-7-7-8-5-6-5-7-10-16-12-9-5
1.4 Quality; 1.5 Depth; total score: 850.5
There were two recessive reds in the kit, 16 Andalusians, two black badges flights. The cock who sired them is a black white flight out of a long line of Turner's Rambo line. The hen was a rr from Joe Bob Stuka's family.
Hope this helps,
Cliff
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 7:30 PM
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
1893 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:26 PM
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Scott
I agree, I have seen not one "polluted loft" either. I have seem many lofts with a few rare phenotypes and lofts with Birmingham rollers that are less than 100% pure, but that's about all.
All of these lofts held performance rollers that made their owners happy; some guys were competing with those birds and doing quite well. A few were highly competitive and some were backyard flyers. Come to think of it, the only place I fly is in my own backyard.
And still today, after years of color controversy, there is not one rule that mentions anything about any color or any factor. The truth is, good performance rollers, can and do come, in many different colors, some that were in the original imports and some that were added later through a breed cross. We have 100% pure Birmingham Rollers and Birmingham Rollers that are less than 100% pure.
Cliff
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
1894 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:31 PM
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Mike
Iowa is not that far from NC. Any time you want to come see what rare-colored, 99 % PURE, Birmingham Rollers can do, let me know and I will show you some. Make it a business trip and chalk it up to the expense account or if you are down here doing business, same deal. I will look forward to it. You won't go home empty-handed!
Cliff
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 7:32 PM
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
1895 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:36 PM
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rollerman 132
I don't have any stencils, only one opal (of Rick Schoening's), and a few reduced....but I got Indigo....I got Indigo every which way but loose! Double-factored Indigo, Spread Indigo (Andalusian), Indigo Grizzle, Indigo saddles, Indigo checks, Reduced Indigo, Indigo on ash red, even had an Indigo Almond once......you name it!!
Does it have to be 20 birds or just enter the 20 bird fly/WC? Is it just score higher than 300 points or will a regional win do? So, 00 points regional or finals and you will publicly take off your hat and send me the picture to have published in the bulletin explaining the reason you took off your hat?
AND you will compete with 20 birds all one color factor, the same color.....whatever color you chose red, blue etc....they must all look alike, all W/F or all selfs, all clear tails or all mixed tail, all badges or all baldies or all unmarked heads.
You score 300 pts with a kit like that and I will start to believe......score 600 pts and I will take my hat off to you.
Cliff
Last Edited by on Apr 20, 2009 7:41 PM
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Scott
2093 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:38 PM
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Cliff , I will agree with this and let it end here and you are them as they are, there is no hiding the truth on this post and people can make their own choices.
Scott
(Scott
I agree, I have seen not one "polluted loft" either. I have seem many lofts with a few rare phenotypes and lofts with Birmingham rollers that are less than 100% pure, but that's about all.
All of these lofts held performance rollers that made their owners happy; some guys were competing with those birds and doing quite well. A few were highly competitive and some were backyard flyers. Come to think of it, the only place I fly is in my own backyard.
And still today, after years of color controversy, there is not one rule that mentions anything about any color or any factor. The truth is, good performance rollers, can and do come, in many different colors, some that were in the original imports and some that were added later through a breed cross. We have 100% pure Birmingham Rollers and Birmingham Rollers that are less than 100% pure.
Cliff )
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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cballlofts
64 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:41 PM
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Cliff,
That score of 850.5 on 5-2-08, Was that Regionals or Finals?
Chuck
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Scott
2094 posts
Apr 20, 2009
7:42 PM
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What are brother for ? LOL
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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