Ragin Rollers
70 posts
Dec 12, 2009
6:32 PM
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You dont even have the right to judge if you already dont like my birds because they have color.......
So i will petition the NBRC to not make the same mistake again and let you judge.
We pay our hard earned money to the club in and we expect to get honest judging not this bias bull that you have running through your veins............
Please feel free to explain yourself????????????????
Russ.............
Ragin Rollers Colored rollers by the way..........
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George R.
216 posts
Dec 12, 2009
8:12 PM
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Russ
what line of Birds do you fly ? TURNERS ?
As long as you enjoy your Birds that is all that counts , The Birds are for OUR pleasure let us never forget that....
I have several Birds of Color Not Rare color but Rec.red, Oddsides, badges, white Flights , lavenders ETc.
Last Edited by on Dec 12, 2009 8:17 PM
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fhtfire
2307 posts
Dec 12, 2009
8:43 PM
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Russ,
WOW>...you know....I know Scott on a personal level...and he may not like color birds....but I will tell you this..when he stands underneath a kit and you say time in....he will judge what he sees....and the birds better roll...and better break together....but he would NEVER throw a fly because of the color of a feather....becuase when they are in the air...all you see is the underside....and if they roll they will score.....Rough and opinionated yes.....but bias as a judge...Not in your life.....He is a serious flier and loves to see a good kit in the air...I know if Scott stood uner a kit of whitebar, lace, silver, andalusion what have you...and they tore it up....he would be the first one to...EAT CROW>..and two...say oh gosh damn...I just saw a colored kit tear it up.
What happened Russ....did you hear something...have you called Scott to talk to him in person....I have talked to Scott about the finals and judging and not one time did he ever mention to me...about any colored birds....he said he saw some good kits...some kits that were off and some kits that had issues...just like any other fly..and he met aLOT of great people and it was an experience of a liftime.....if he had a hard on for some colored kits...I am sure I would have heard about it....
rock and ROLL
Paul
Last Edited by on Dec 12, 2009 8:45 PM
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SpinCityRollers
320 posts
Dec 12, 2009
9:20 PM
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Hey ragin I have birds of color and scott know and saw my birds an i no way absolutly no way did he show bias to my birds because of it background or color also Randy Gibson has the same birds i have and he came in the top five
Scott judges spin and He wants them to be right on the money (SAME TIME)
I ve heard so much Bs about Scott it ridiculous to me he is A one in My book truly first class and thanks for taking the time to come by here
that my take on that
Ps and he is pretty funny too LMAO all day)
The inventor of the A.C.R.P
American Color Roller Pigeon ( ps should be spinning but rolling sounds better)
Marlon Mad Max Garnett
2 time top ten nation fly finisher
and breeder of spinning birds with color
Last Edited by on Dec 12, 2009 9:23 PM
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katyroller
681 posts
Dec 12, 2009
9:49 PM
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Russ,
Scott and I disgree on different things from time to time but believe it or not, agree on quite a few things. Having said that, I know Scott is a good guy and that he supports the hobby. The fact that there were kits that scored well with color birds in them, is proof that Scott did an honest job of judging. My only hope was that he would have mentioned some of the color birds that did well, so more of those that choose to raise color birds would consider competing.
Reconsider how you feel about Scott and realize that he means well.
Tracey
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fhtfire
2312 posts
Dec 12, 2009
10:17 PM
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Tracey,
All Scott has to do is mention what birds have done well and he has done that....Its on the NBRC finals page..LOL....I think he did mention the ones that did well...Randy Gibson for one....and the fact that he could not tell and did not care they were colored...he cant really mention something he was not paying attention too...good post.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Scott
2685 posts
Dec 12, 2009
11:56 PM
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Russ , Others handled this pretty well for me ( thanks guys) is there any thing else that you would like to know ?
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2009 12:09 AM
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TT
GOLD MEMBER
491 posts
Dec 13, 2009
12:10 AM
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Im pretty sure if Scott is looking up, He cant tell who's who from color, And is only there to see one thing, and that is the the perfect kit, And if you can produce that with what u have then dont worry about it, And if you cant then you need to do some thinking and change your program.
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Tony...
"Color is not an option"
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Rocky Lofts
135 posts
Dec 13, 2009
4:22 AM
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hey Ragin rollers, you have a real attitude. problem since i have been on this site scott always trys and help people with his nowledge. and helpful advise. who cares what colour birds you breed or i breed or the next person breeds. at least he judges the birds fair and square. scott your my idol buddy keep up the good work . now please dont all atack me on my spelling mistakes.
Cheers, Rocky
"Rocky Lofts"
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mikea
25 posts
Dec 13, 2009
4:43 AM
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I would like to say I stood beside Scott on A hill
and in A shallow lake, raining,wind and some sunshine.
Scott was looking up all the time.His feet wet cold
but not hungry. Had no rubber boots. I saw A honest
man doing the roller world honor.
mike allen
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2203 posts
Dec 13, 2009
8:29 AM
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Well said, Gentlemen. Russ, you have to dig a little deeper and look beneath the surface of Scott's unsavory communication style. LOL! As you guys know, Soctt and I have had many discussions over the years (some of them "knock-down drag-out" in intensity) about our differences of opinions regarding the broad scope and multiple perspectives of this particular issue. Through these discussions, I think a lot of men have learned a lot, and Scott and I have each earned respect for the other's committment to performance. I respect Scott's position on the potential for degradation of the breed and his desire to keep the breed intact. And I hope that he has gained a measure of respect for the performance of the family of rollers (Turners) that I and many others have chosen to work with based on their outstanding performance, in spite of the fact that they may be only 99% "pure". And I believe that, contrary to his formerly-held opinion, he has gained a new respect for the fact that roller men are able to work with this family of rollers, with a committment to performance, and not just color.
I invited Scott to judge the National Championship because I couldn't get anyone else. LOL! (Not true actually. there were other good choices.) But to get real, #1 As a Master Flyer, he has proved himself and his family of rollers in the competition arena. #2. His experience in judging rollers. #3. The fact that the judge does not typically inspect the birds before the competition fly, to see what they look like. #4. The objectivity and unbiased appreciation for performance, regardless of color, that he professed. I wanted to see, personally, what the man was made of. There were enough kits in the finals with color birds in them, that any attempt to minimize their scores based on a color bias, would have been obvious, quickly reported, and would have revealed a bogus alterior motive and agenda on Scott's part, diminshing him as a roller man, in the eyes of many.
What we have learned through Scott's judging of the 2009 NBRC National Championship, is that, though Scott is adamant in discussing his opinions on internet lists, when he is standing under a kit of rollers, he has an appreciation for quality performance, without regard for the color of the pigeon. There are those that may disagree with how high he has set the bar for quality performance, but that is a different issue altogether. We learned that, in fact, many of the color birds flew "under his radar" with many of the color modifiers being difficult or impossible to detect. Or quite possibly, it was simply a non-issue for him. He actually scored kits of color birds higher than kits of "pure" families closely related to his own. That says it all. It was obvious that as a judge, he has integrity. He put performance and quality first, and he was consistant in scoring that performance. That's all we can ask of any judge.
Cliff
PS I don't expect to get any slack from Scott, when and if the issue raises its ugly head, again, on the internet. And neither should he expect any from me. But we have developed a friendship and mutual respect for each other's committment to the hobby, and to the sport of flying performance rollers.
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2009 8:32 AM
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fhtfire
2314 posts
Dec 13, 2009
8:52 AM
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Cliff well said....and I like long emails....LOL...
rock and ROLL
Paul
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birdman
758 posts
Dec 13, 2009
10:26 AM
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Russ,
If you're going to post nonsense stuff like that, please change your name......or put up a better kit next time.
Thanks!
Russ
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nicksiders
GOLD MEMBER
3939 posts
Dec 13, 2009
12:22 PM
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Listen! Listen Up! Scott Campbell does not judge your birds based on color; size; or anything other than performance.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2009 5:21 PM
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Ragin Rollers
71 posts
Dec 13, 2009
2:42 PM
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I never said i did not like Scott but when you post things like this then i wonder if i lose points as soon as you walk on the property just cause their are colored bids that i fly?
Heres the quote
Tracey , there were none with color birds in any numbers that I'm aware of ,most I would venture to say had none as to be expected but then why would there be ?
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fhtfire
2319 posts
Dec 13, 2009
3:35 PM
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You have to be kidding right...that quote...you know..you look at the man...you ever heard..actions speak louder then words....come on...do you think that because CLIFF likes colored birds that he would judge a kit of colored rollers over non colored or show bias to non colored....Please..
Quote...
"There were none with color birds in any numbers that I'm aware of"
Meaning-....so...he is stating FACT...not alot of colored birds compared to the MAJORITY that fly uncolored..that is what that means.....none in any numbers...3-4 birds in a kit of 20....only a handfull of fliers with the 3-4 out of 50...lets just say there were 12 fliers....with 3-5 colored birds..and I will give you the 5....so 60 colored birds out of about 1,000 birds...thats muliplying 20X50....that is the 20 bird fly....not exact but close...and out of those 60 maybe a couple showing the paint job of a colored bird..and the rest are showing natural colors with colored background...did you guys show Scott peds before the fly and tell him the Blue Check or Black is carrying lace...or white bar..NO..so Scott is near superhero status...but he cant look into the bird and see Xray vision of what the genetic make up of the bird is...so...like he stated...NONE WITH COLOR BIRDS IN ANY NUMBERS>>>>>so not that many is all that means...THAT I AM AWARE OF...meaning he really did not look or know if all were or were not...
Next quote...
"Most I would venture to say had none as to be expected"
FACT-...majority of the fliers do not fly colored birds...hence the word MOST......as to be expected....that is fact too...birds showing color or have color are loaded with roll at least what it appears from some of Cliffs post...and you have to know your shit to make them work....Hence..I have a respect with the ones that have color in the background and placing high..because those are damn good fanciers...they pull it out of them..so...as to be expected...Since most fly non color birds...then it would be expected that most would not have colored birds.....So again Fact...
"But then why would there be"
Fact...SOme fly colored birds in comp...MOST do not..so since Most do not...why would there be more then we all expected....
So...nice try dude....at least take a quote that says he hates colored birds not on facts that he was stating about what he knew and experienced during the fly..and common sense to most fanciers far and wide.
Next time post where he said they are Mongrels and only reefer smoking circus migets dable in colored birds....now that was a great quote...I still use it from time to time..
Russ...why dont you just say sorry..you jumped the gun..and Thank Scott for taking the time out of his life and judging the birds based on roll not color..as CLIFF SAID and CLiff is the damn leader of the colored bird National protect the color bird debate thingy...LOL>>>LOL>...you know what I am saying...Cliff is the poster child for colored birds and has done well with them...his MF points show that and he is in a damn good region....but FACT...you have to know your shit to fly colored....he is surrounded by others that fly color and when you have 4 or 5 heads talking breeding and performance it makes it better to move forward..FACT most dont care for them and are just fine with the standard colors..that be me...but by no means will any color breeder or normal color breeder....jerk a national fly around...Period..both have to much respect for the sport and the hobby.
So his quote base on fact...MOST FLIERS FLY NON COLORED BIRDS>>>>SO WHY WOULD ANYBODY EXPECT ANYTHING LESS THEN SMALL NUMBERS OF COLORED BIRDS>>>>AND HE NEVER REALLY GAVE IT ANY THOUGHT>>>MEANING>>>>I DONT GIVE A SHIT!! WHAT COLOR THEY ARE>>>I CAME TO JUDGE PIGEONS>>>>
rock and ROll
paul
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2009 3:42 PM
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Ragin Rollers
72 posts
Dec 13, 2009
4:01 PM
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fhtfire,
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Ragin Rollers
73 posts
Dec 13, 2009
4:06 PM
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fhtfire,
I applaud his effort.....But when you even say that you dont really like colored birds and would never have them then i see a minus from the start, Now if you fly in the finals and he said WELL i could have gave you some points i just figured that it wasnt enough so why? I would like something other than a big fat ZERO wouldnt you? Then you start reading into things that he said And GO Ooo I see now.....
Russ......
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fhtfire
2320 posts
Dec 13, 2009
4:35 PM
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Hey Russ,
I did fly in the finals and I was gone deer hunting....I did not even see my birds fly and they only scored 30 points....they had issues...but I take Scott for his word on what happened....but some really dont like Scotts family....I dont..I could not get them to work for me...but If I judged him..it would be what they do right then and there...not because I did not like his birds...some dont like grizzles..some dont like Yellows....some dont like pearl eyed....I myself dont like colored birds and dont care to have them.....but that is just my opinion...but I judged anybody with colored birds...I will judge what I see as most hard core fliers would.....I will put it to you this way...I myself am Glad that I did not do well in the finals...could you imagine the complaining if I would have done well....because Scott and I are friends and in the same region.....but the fact is...we all have poor scores....I got a zero I think in the World Cup...if I score a zero it is nobodys fault but mine...not the birds fault or the color....now if you would have had your birds prepped good and had some good breaks...trust me you would have been scored.....Scott had no problem talking about the fliers that put up the points with colored birds..IF scott hated colored birds and it influenced his judging.....why did a colored bird kit take 3rd in the 11 bird or Randy Gibson....score so well...he too had colored birds....why are all the other color breeders not complaining or jumping on Scott..this is a perfect time to jump on your wagon and go on a witch hunt...they dont jump on your wagon...because when it comes to judging the color breeders know Scott is all business....kind like not mixing business with pleasure....
rock and ROLL
Paul
You can believe what you want..but if my birds scored a zero...I dont want fluff or gimme points..now that I know you got a ZERO it appears to me that you are a sore loser.......I hope that is not true...but it appears that way.
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2204 posts
Dec 13, 2009
5:49 PM
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Paul,
".... Cliff is the damn leader of the colored bird National protect the color bird debate thingy...LOL>>>LOL>..."
Now that's funny! LMAO!
Cliff
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Ty Coleman
828 posts
Dec 13, 2009
5:53 PM
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I will add my 2 cents.
I flew in the finals under Scott and I had alot of concern on wether I would get a fair score after all of our arguments in the past. In my opinion Scott does score way above the written standards and has his own idea of what is scorable and what is not. From what I saw H style was all he would score and from what I gathered from other friends who flew the finals was what they saw out of him also, but he was consistant with it across the board. I will also add that my finals kit had the worse fly they have ever had after all the hawk attacks and substitutions they were lucky to have scored 6 points under Scott. From what I saw SCOTT HAD NO COLOR BIAS IN HIS JUDGING.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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fhtfire
2321 posts
Dec 13, 2009
6:43 PM
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Ty..you said it CONSISTANT is the key
rock and ROLL
Paul
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Scott
2686 posts
Dec 13, 2009
11:29 PM
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Ty, As for the H and better, yes that is what I was looking for as min. in the 11 bird as I explained before the fly ,for me the min. standard for the 20 is a X which is a 1.0. , the birds in question on your fly had their wings straight out which any judge worth his salt would never consider scoreing.
Ty, use what I judged you by as a standard and raise "your" bar which will make you a better flyer.
(P.S. Glad your dad is doing much better ! and say hi to Tiffany for me)
Ragin, I was asked a question and I answered it. If you didn't like the answer I don't know what to say. But lets be honest here. You aren't a flyer or competitor to begin with, so where are you trying to go with this thread.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Dec 13, 2009 11:35 PM
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2206 posts
Dec 14, 2009
6:33 AM
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Scott
Just so you don't leave a wrong impression, you might want to explain what other factors influenced how you determined a specific QUALITY multiplier.
Cliff
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winwardrollers
361 posts
Dec 14, 2009
8:16 AM
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Russ
This is quite a bash you have going here..looks like you a loner on this. I looked around for your name in the competitions...Russel Bellinger and couldn't find it...what's your point.
bwinward
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Scott
2687 posts
Dec 14, 2009
8:30 AM
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Cliff , the only way to do that is under teams when you are looking at the same thing. There are way too many variables from team to team and break to break and birds to birds, none are exactly the same.
If someone is complaining about their multiplier it is telling me that it is a low one , and if it is a low one it is because the ones higher than theirs flew better quality pigeons. It is honestly that simple, and they probably need to raise their standard.
Quality (or depth) multipliers are based on the average of everything that was scored.
For myself I start thinking of the multipliers and fix on a multiplier about half way through , from that point on I either adjust up,down or stay the same depending on the birds.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2207 posts
Dec 14, 2009
8:48 AM
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Scott
Good point! There are many other considerations involved in what Q multiplier the kits earns....besides wing positions. Wing position is just one out of many things a judge must weigh before making his determination.
Thanks
Cliff
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George R.
218 posts
Dec 14, 2009
9:40 AM
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Ty
The Birds you flew for Scott did you get them from James Turner or Cliff Ball ?
Ty based on my expierence axle Rollers have very slow velocity and it is hereditary, no matter what you feed the Birds or what conditions you fly in or even who judges axle Rollers stick out like a sore thumb.
Sometimes the size of a pigeon can influence the velocity of a pigeon for instance who would spin faster if they could spin a Turkey or a Hummingbird ? Just look at Gymnast most are in the small size 115 lbs you dont see anybody in Gymnastics that weigh 250 lbs .
Good luck on your next fly Ty .
George
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2009 9:44 AM
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Scott
2688 posts
Dec 14, 2009
10:52 AM
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George, I don't think who he got them from has anything to do with anything although they will most cetainly produce their like.
There was one guy whose birds were fairly popular at one time that claimed that wing position mean't little and it was all about speed, nor did he care how they exitede the roll. He also claimed that birds should be judged by the side and not underneith , his birds had a reputation of rolling with their wings out.
The funny thing is a few years ago there was a guy in here flying those birds argueing that a birds quality should be judged from the side (in other words where you can't see the wing position)
George I have bred a few Axel wingers that were down right smokers in the speed department, but they were culls all the same.
As for Ty, he also had a couple of decent birds in the team and that is what scored , those are what he should be looking for when building a team , which we discussed.
Where many new guys go wrong (and some others) is that if it rolls it goes in the team with no thought for quality or lack of ( those that score this are not judging by the rules and do great harm) and then they don't understand it when it isn't scored and want to be judged by a lower standard.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2009 11:16 AM
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Scott
2689 posts
Dec 14, 2009
11:13 AM
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Of coarse there are other things Cliff , speed, balance and how they exit all play in also.
What wasn't scored in either the 11 or the 20 birds were birds rolling with their wings out , wing switching (sloppy), birds exiting the roll sloppy , or birds slow enoulgh where I could count the revolutions speed wise.
(Good point! There are many other considerations involved in what Q multiplier the kits earns....besides wing positions. Wing position is just one out of many things a judge must weigh before making his determination.
Thanks
Cliff )
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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George R.
219 posts
Dec 14, 2009
11:25 AM
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Scott
all familys produce axel rollers , you are right some guys will put any bird that rolls in thier Comp. kit regardless of the quality of the Roll .
Having the time to fly and choose the Birds with the most quality is one of the challenges of flying good kits. And luck to avoid the BOP's.
It is my opinion that fanciers that have more time ( retired, swing shift, garveyard shift, self employed ) have better opportunitys to Fly thier Birds and assemble a better kit.
I know several Guys that are at the mercy of thier work schedule and cant fly in the Morning or spend a decent amount of time with thier Rollers but they still try to put up a nice kit.
As far as you seeing Axle Rollers with Blur speed I have never seen a Blur speed Axle wing Bird , but I am only refering to my expierence.
Scott if a Birds wings are sticking strait out how can the Bird generate enough velocity to be Blur speed ?
Maybe someone who has a taken some courses in physics can explain to me how a Bird that has his wings strait out ( axle) can generate enough speed to Blur out .
Scott what are the Multiplyers for ? I always thought that if a Competitors team of Birds quality is not that good then a Judge should just give him a lower quality score just like depth if a guys kit is rolling 40ft and another guys kit is rolling 20 feet well then the Guy with the 40ft kit should get a better depth multiplyer . why would quality be any different ? Maybe the rules should be changed and thier should only be a set standard for quality and leave the depth multiplyer in place .
In no way am I saying that dishrag rollers shoiuld be scored but the scale is 1.0 to 2.0 that gives a lot of inbetween , can you describe what a 1.0 quality Roller is and a 2.0 quality Roller is , I am just trying to learn .
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2009 11:39 AM
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Scott
2692 posts
Dec 14, 2009
3:22 PM
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George , of coarse the guys with more time have an advantage, at least to a degree, sometimes too much time is just enough time to screw them up and I think this happens alot, plus they tend to breed too many and not focus.
But then when I had a grind of a job I was up before the crack of dawn training, plus catching every opertunity that I could get to train. Plus you don't have time to screw around or waste perch space.
As for the fast axel Rollers , I don't ever remember seeing a dog slow one , all I know is what I see with the naked eye.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2009 4:00 PM
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Scott
2693 posts
Dec 14, 2009
3:34 PM
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George, the multipliers are to seperate the the good ones from the exceptionial , not to give birds rolling like culls (with faults) an oppurtunity to beat a team of birds rolling correctly.
A standard that many use (including myself) for a 1.0 is a X wing or better , roll clean and straight all the way through with no wingswitch, exit the roll cleanly and correctly at a speed where the revolutions can be counted with the naked eye. Where the depth multiplier is concerned they must first meet the min. quality standard.
If we aren't careful then what Pensom predicted will come to pass, hope this helps.
(Scott what are the Multiplyers for ? )
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2009 3:58 PM
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George R.
220 posts
Dec 14, 2009
3:46 PM
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Thanks Scott I wish I could have asked you more questions when you were here .
Thanks George
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Ty Coleman
829 posts
Dec 14, 2009
4:46 PM
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George, 5 of the 11 birds that I flew in the finals were pulled out of my cull kitbox that is set aside birds for the dog trainor for various faults. I did not consider the axle rollers but they were very low x rollers. One black hen was a reflown breeder and one black w\f hen which I bred was the only stock quality bird in the kit. The other 4 birds are dedicated kit birds until a better bird takes there place. I did have some very nice birds going in to the finals but the hawks liked them better than I did LOL
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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pigeon pete
449 posts
Dec 14, 2009
5:16 PM
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George,
What we see when a bird rolls can be illusionary.
The bird that appears to hold it's wings straight out all the time is still moving its wings to provide propulsion for the roll, but it is using a different arc from the H wing or X wing birds.
If a bird could roll holding the wings straight out then the wing would probably provide little more, or even less drag than an X winger. Filming such birds would comfirm this (or not).
Years ago when I was told by fanciers and read it in literature that a roller did a complete up and down stroke of the wings on each revolution, I just said it was not possible, but some guys cannot visualise what could be happening without high quality slo-mo film. Even then they need freeze frame to clearly follow it.
I have also said all along, that the viewpoint will change the style, so that an H style seen from below will be an X winger or A style from the front, or from the rear. Nobody has ever really agreed with this, and I have no video evidence, just years of watching the same birds from different perspectives. Also it makes sense to me because what we see with an H from below is the image of the wings as they are mid way through an arc, the front view shows the part of the arc in which the wings are touching (top of the A) and the part where the arc is open (Legs of the A).
If the wings don't come close to touching then we get an X. These birds may also show an X from below, but I regard this type as poor style and wouldn't fly one in a kit unless I was struggling for numbers.
The aforementioned A-H framer description is is only of birds that complete the cycle in a certain regulated way, some birds may touch wings, but the arc of the wings is out of synch with the revolution and so you get a bluring effect which may look sort of like an X from below and from the front.
I think the description 'blur roller' can be misleading. In my book the best rollers show a well defined shape to the roll. Good smooth syncronised style is the first requirement, and speed adds to the illusion of the wings being fixed in one position, be that an A or an H.
Hyper fast rollers can look vey impressive but we are often so taken aback by the sheer velocity that we don't always scrutinise the style so closely, unless it is our own bird and then we can study it at our leisure. Hope I have explaied my ideas clearly.
regards,
Pete
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Scott
2697 posts
Dec 14, 2009
7:56 PM
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Absolutly Pete, most so called blures are off balance birds coupled with speed. When the balance is there you have perfect outlines of the wings.
(I think the description 'blur roller' can be misleading. In my book the best rollers show a well defined shape to the roll. Good smooth syncronised style is the first requirement, and speed adds to the illusion of the wings being fixed in one position, be that an A or an H.
Hyper fast rollers can look vey impressive but we are often so taken aback by the sheer velocity that we don't always scrutinise the style so closely, unless it is our own bird and then we can study it at our leisure. Hope I have explaied my ideas clearly.
regards,
Pete )
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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cv rollers
507 posts
Dec 14, 2009
9:38 PM
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so from what u are saying scott, the X wing bird does not score ,do all judges judge this way?so if i have some in a kit i should not use them and break up the pair that produces them ,just starting out and have not competed YET and trying to learn!!!!!
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Rick Flores
coachellavalleyrollers.net
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fhtfire
2324 posts
Dec 14, 2009
10:06 PM
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CV rollers,
you are correct....if you have X wings...get rid of them...keep the H and A wings. I did that back in 04 and since 06 I have yet to breed and X or Axle roller....every bird is H or A...that does not mean that there are other faults.....some are a little slower then others....that make them not make the team...some may get sloppy at the end and wing switch..but as far as straight up patter....Yes...if it were me....raise you standard....and Put the A and H...I bet if you ask any of the fliers who have been in the top 10 in the championship fly since the begining..I would bet that they have high standards as I do...and nothing but close perfect is acceptable..of course we all have birds in different stages of development....but when you get to the end of the race...the bird better me a smoker...with depth and quaility...or it will not see next year....of course if you have to use what you have do to issues or unforseen circumstances that is just that...but you goal better be very strict....or you will spin your wheels an not go anywhere.
rock and ROLL
Paul
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JMUrbon
789 posts
Dec 14, 2009
10:40 PM
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You know I have been following this post trying to see just were it would go when it donned on me that the whole just of it is such bullshit that it really should have been removed by Tony the day it was put up. Scott is and will be for a long time one of the most dedicated fliers I have flown against and if you are looking for what he looks for in a quality kit you dont need to go any further than his backyard. I would be willing to bet my house on the fact that this national fly was judged as well as anybody could have possibly done it and I would guarentee that the best kit on the days they flew are in the order that Scott placed them. And by the way I am sure he judged pigeons. Not colored pigeons or non colored pigeons. Just pigeons. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
Last Edited by on Dec 14, 2009 10:42 PM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3807 posts
Dec 15, 2009
5:12 AM
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Joe, I see why you might see things the way you describe, I considered changing the thread title or even removing the thread, however, taking it down would have only encouraged Ragin to fan the flames here and/or elsewhere. Look, someone attempted to flame Scott and the community stood up and defended one of its own. Scott's reputation as a fair but hard judge has stood up to scrutiny and was found to be above reproach.
Had Scott asked me to remove it, I would have. I figure he didn't because he knows BS when he sees it.
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FLY ON!
Tony Chavarria
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Mongrel Lofts
626 posts
Dec 15, 2009
7:15 AM
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Scott,
I wpuld come to your defense but you prejudiced smuck. You scored them rare colored birds above mine! Never mind my kit sucked. You just have it in for normal colored rollers. I'm onto you. LMAO
Don't you just love it when a non flying ragin whiner wants to bash others for something he don't even participate in? Why do they whine about a sport they have nothing to do with? Odd.!! KGB
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JMUrbon
792 posts
Dec 15, 2009
8:08 AM
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Thanks for the input Tony. Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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Scott
2703 posts
Dec 15, 2009
12:39 PM
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Joe , thanks but this really didn't bother me in the least...This is all just part of judging ... your comment on "just judging pigeons" was right on the money... that is all it is about and the only thing that I thought about...there was only me and the team above me.
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Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
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PR_rollers
GOLD MEMBER
3497 posts
Dec 15, 2009
1:40 PM
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Rage said >"So i will petition the NBRC to not make the same mistake again and let you judge".
Do you really think they would listen to you,,knowing you don't even compete let alone fly from what I'm reading here,
I don't compete but I sure know a good one when I feel one and I feel Scott is the real deal..your boy KGB is right this guy was here to bash you..but the only one that got bash was him.. you answer every post here like a real pro,get down Scott and I mean street talking you did good....:)
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Ralph.
Pigeons are not our whole life, but they damn sure make our lives whole!" ~
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2009 1:42 PM
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Ballrollers
GOLD MEMBER
2215 posts
Dec 15, 2009
1:49 PM
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In Russ's defense, I don't think he was strictly out to bash, Scott. I believe that he was motivated by honest concern for Scott's integrity in judging, based on his taking Scott's comunication literally, and the resulting misunderstanding of what Scott is about...as well as his lack of knowldege of Scott's committment to performance. It was an understandable mistake, and one that many others have made. One has to learn to separate Scott's committment to performance and his stance on the color issue. I suspect he (Russ) has learned to ask questions first before jumping to conclusions.
Cliff
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Scott
2704 posts
Dec 15, 2009
2:42 PM
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Cliff, make no mistake, he is a non flying mongral breeder and he was trying to turn this into something else , there is no defence...
Scott Campbell
" God Bless "
Last Edited by on Dec 15, 2009 4:30 PM
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JMUrbon
793 posts
Dec 15, 2009
3:55 PM
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Cliff if he is a flier he handled this poorly. He should have taken the matter up with his RD. You are the GC so you tell me what the rules say about attacking a judge in this mannor.Joe
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J.M.Urbon Lofts
A Proven Family of Spinners
http://www.freewebs.com/jmurbonlofts/
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George R.
221 posts
Dec 15, 2009
4:14 PM
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Scott said
" mongrol breeder "
Thats funny Scott
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fhtfire
2326 posts
Dec 15, 2009
5:31 PM
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I say if you attack a judge you get a MELVIN underware straight up the arse!!!
Rock and ROLL
Paul
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