Mayo
68 posts
Jan 16, 2009
11:57 PM
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The Turner line .....................ok guys what should this form of Roller be Classed, Birmingham? American Performing Color Roller? The American Performance Roller? the American Mutt Roller? What!??? what should they be called? any ideas?................MaYO
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Ty Coleman
504 posts
Jan 17, 2009
4:18 AM
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Mayo, Mr. James Turners line is in no way the only line of color rollers out there so I feel you could have brodened your question a little. But to answer your question they are Turner Rollers and I would call your's Mayo Rollers.
Mr, James is a Master performance breeder. There have been alot of birds sold using his name that were not of his family, the same as Bill Pensom. If you get a bird from his loft you can bet one thing, it will spin ! There are many prepotent birds in this family, they are very easy to handle and fly. This didnt happen by accident he bred them that way. I see alot of people that like to discredit his hard work and dedication to the hobby, and that is a sad thing to watch. You call them what you want, and I will call them great rollers, regardless.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
Last Edited by on Jan 17, 2009 4:45 AM
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Ballrollers
1642 posts
Jan 17, 2009
7:50 AM
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Mayo,
I would think that living in a free democracy, you could call them anything you like. However, I have written an article that was printed in the NBRC bulletin a few years back, where I interviewed James Turner. Tony had it listed on this site. I think he still has it listed. If you are interested in reading it, Go to the "searchsite" feature to the left of the page, type in "James Turner the man who put Color into the Roller." IT may help you find your answer. James Turner has his critics as many of us do but he has also been elected to the highest leadership office of the NBRC and voted in to the NBRC HOF (Hall of Fame). I would just suggest you read about the man before you believe anything you have heard. Has he made mistakes? Who hasn't? Has he stepped up to the plate and volunteered to help guide the NBRC? YES! Even, with all the controversy that follows the men who try to help run this organization, I believe each try their best to do what is fair and just. His unique skill at breeding performance and quality in a family of rollers continues to amaze me the more I work with this family.
Cliff
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Ballrollers
1643 posts
Jan 17, 2009
7:54 AM
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Mayo,
P.S. Please tell me what you can find written for the Birmingham Roller Standard in the NBRC, WC or any of Pensom's writings. The majority of the information, I can find, is primarily based around PERFORMANCE. Yes, there is a small bit of information about other important issues that are also included, but most of what we have today from the two main players who support the Performance rollers, is about performance. There are a myriad of sources to document the performance characteristics of Rollers but to be a "TRUE BIRMINGHAM ROLLER" there is only one over riding element that must be met......... It does not need to be a certain color. It does not need to be a certain length. It does not need to be a lot of things ... But it does need to spin to a certain performance standard. If you think that for you personally, you want to add the bird must be this or that, before YOU call it a Birmingham Roller..... You are welcome to do that. We can have as many descriptions and BR standards as we have trees in the woods. I just follow the fly rules from the NBRC and WC. If they it is good enough for them, it is good enough for me. But if you feel that is not good enough for you, you do what ever you feel is best for you as an individual. If you ever run across any Roller club that specifically judges for anything other than performance.... You let me know. I have never heard of one. So, if no National organization, NO international organization and not one single local organization, addresses Birmingham roller standards .......... except in terms of performance...... Why should I? Now, if we want to discuss fly scores, D&Q, frequency and kit performance, we can do that, for that is what separates Tumblers from "TRUE BIRMINGHAM ROLLERS."
Cliff
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spinningdemon
194 posts
Jan 17, 2009
7:58 AM
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Turner birds are top notch spinners. Breed for what you breed rollers for. Fast, tight, deep spins good parents and high precentage of great babies what else would you want.
The fact that through James breeding skills he has birds that are just as pretty in the loft as they are in the air should make all excited about his endeavors.
If a person can not apprectiate his skill it suprises me.
I am one that is tired of the color verse blue check debates that it makes me sick. Cant we all just let each other breed what they enjoy and not down another fancier for heavens sake their are not that many pigeon fanciers out thier anymore and we need to bad together and not bring up things that have potentional to drive us apart.
I would call the Turner Rollers just like TY said
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David Curneal
www.freewebs.com/dcurneal
www.saltcreekcustomstone.com
In the air since 1973
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Scott
1441 posts
Jan 17, 2009
8:05 AM
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(I am one that is tired of the color verse blue check debates that it makes me sick)
Dave, I have been around a bit and have never seen any such of a debate as you decribed above, what are you talking about ?
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
192 posts
Jan 17, 2009
8:15 AM
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Cliff,
Your article is srill out there. I downloaded and printed a copy of it earlier this morning for my archives. Very well written and informative article, Thanks.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
193 posts
Jan 17, 2009
8:32 AM
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Mayo, why do feel it necessary to rundown a reputable man's bloodline. The Jacs you raise have been called a lot of things as well. What if I was to refer to them as San Diego Warehouse Raised But Never Flown Rollers of worse as I have heard them called. If you raise a line of birds that originated with one of the biggest feather merchants in the history of rollerdom then you really ought to be more careful when referring to other peoples birds.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3029 posts
Jan 17, 2009
10:55 AM
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I will stay out of this. I will stay out of this. I will stay out of this...
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
195 posts
Jan 17, 2009
11:08 AM
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Tony, I apologize for getting carried away but I am tired of people running down a man who has given so much to this hobby. He didn't get into the NBRC Hall of Fame by accident. He really doesn't need me to stand up for him, his record speaks for itself. The individual who started this thread was whining the other nite in the chat room that all the flyers in his area were "Turnerites" so his birds didn't get a fair shake during judging. What a crock!!
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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pat66
268 posts
Jan 17, 2009
11:55 AM
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TONY! LOL! I admire all these accomplished flyers- TURNERS-PENSOMS- AND YES YOU TOO SCOTT!I Try to sit back and suck up all I can!
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Pat
Last Edited by on Jan 17, 2009 11:59 AM
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3030 posts
Jan 17, 2009
12:03 PM
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Hey Joe, no problems here. As for the opening post to start this thread, I have learned that anyone can criticize or ridicule the efforts of the doers, that's easy. It makes them feel smart and superior. It just makes me think, what have they done of any import that will cause some other smart person want to ridicule or put down?
Agree or disagree about James Turner's roller pigeon accomplishments, he DID SOMETHING! How many can say that? LOL
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
196 posts
Jan 17, 2009
12:20 PM
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Can I get a big AMEN from the congregation on that!!!
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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nicksiders
3215 posts
Jan 17, 2009
12:23 PM
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James Turner told me that the Birmingham Roller is a description of a performance and has no real sence of being a specific breed. Now, if you believe the same, then you will have nothing but admiration for Mr. Turner. If you believe the Birmingham Roller is a specific breed then you may find yourself at odds with Mr. Turner and may even believe that he did more harm to the breed than good. I will say that Mr. Turner made his own bed and is man enough to lay in it. His success in the roller world is predicated on your own feelings about the Birmingham Roller.
Now you must realize that argueing directly with James Turner got me austrasized from a website. So, if you are going to have differences of opinion with certian folks you have to lay in the bed you are going to make or have no opinion at all.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
197 posts
Jan 17, 2009
12:23 PM
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Can I get a big AMEN from the congregation on that!!!
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Scott
1446 posts
Jan 17, 2009
12:31 PM
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(If you get a bird from his loft you can bet one thing, it will spin !)
Only if your standard is set low enough,this is a silly statement to say the least, if true or even possible I would kill everything on the property and be giving you all a call.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 17, 2009 12:41 PM
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Scott
1447 posts
Jan 17, 2009
12:39 PM
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(James Turner told me that the Birmingham Roller is a description of a performance and has no real sence of being a specific breed. Now, if you believe the same)
And that is how you justify mongralizing the breed.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
198 posts
Jan 17, 2009
12:47 PM
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Scott, I don't agree with James Turner on the statement you quoted but that is apparently his opinion. You've got yours and I've got mine. My only reason for getting into this thread was to voice my objection to running a man down for one's own self-grandizment. His name is on the back page of the NBRC bulletin just like yours and many others who have accomplished something noteworthy in this sport. Give him the credit he is due.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Scott
1448 posts
Jan 17, 2009
2:21 PM
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Joe, you are right, he did a very good job with the NBRC, and he certainly deserves credit for it,this thread should never have been started as there was no purpose in it.
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 17, 2009 2:32 PM
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Ballrollers
1644 posts
Jan 17, 2009
2:34 PM
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I would like to add that I feel there are few topics that cause more discussion than the "color controversy." If this issue is so important, I would expect to see a majority of local clubs with all kinds of color restrictions, tail feather restrictions, length of beak restrictions, depth of keel restrictions, size of muff restrictions, crest restrictions, and on and on. But the reality is..... WE DON'T! WE enjoy a clean fast quality spin, we enjoy it in unison performance and single bird performance, we enjoy it with groups of buddies and all by our lonesome. The topics that drive wedges between us are often interesting and informative, they show us our differences of opinion and the depth of our resolve on certain issues.... or we can let them drive men from our hobby/sport. How we choose to "speak" to each other shows our respect or our disdain for one another. I have watched enough of these threads to see who just likes to stir the pot and who really is just asking questions. I have no problems with either, as long as we try to see the others point of view. Good men will come down on both sides of this issue, but which ever side you choose. we are all still Rollermen at heart.
Cliff
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Ballrollers
1645 posts
Jan 17, 2009
2:42 PM
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Nick,
You were not banned from another roller site simply BECAUSE you had a disagreement with James Turner. It was because of your disrespect, antaganism, and sarcasm in the discussion. And I feel certain that your communicating that way with anyone else would have earned you the same treatment there, here, or on any other roller site that has any standards of decorum. Several other individuals on several roller sites have earned similar consequences for similar behavior. The ability to communicate and disagree with the opinions of others is paramount on public forums. We all walk that line. But that was the "old" Nick, anyway, right! LOL!
Cliff
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
199 posts
Jan 17, 2009
2:45 PM
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Scott/Cliff,
Amen brothers. You are both men for whom I have a great deal of respect. We may disagree from time to time but as long as we can agree to disagree everything is informative and hopefully helpful to some.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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cballlofts
10 posts
Jan 17, 2009
3:11 PM
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Joe,
I don't post much, but when I see something like this
I have to reply. How can you say, San Diego Warehouse
Raised But Never Flown Rollers. I call BULLSHIT on that statement. Richard Jaconette got Birds from great
Roller Men like, Leory Smith, Richard Espinoza, Joe
Houghton and Jerry Lynn. Richard's Birds were flown
by many many Great Roller Men.Jerry Higgins,Ron Kumro
Dave Goss, Norm Herrin, Norm Reed,Monty Neible,
Bobby Bradley,Ellis McDonald, Clay Hoyle, and many
more. If Jaconette was such a "feather Merchant" why
did guys have to wait 6 to 8 months to get Birds from
Him? Because They are great Birds and alot of Guys
wanted Them, and still do. If You have a personal
issue with someone, keep it that way.Don't get on a
public forum and run your mouth like that. I don't
talk shit about anyones Birds and don't want to hear
some Idiot doing it.
Chuck
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
200 posts
Jan 17, 2009
3:18 PM
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If this is an example of the decorum you use, it is no wonder you don't post very often. I won't waste my time with your nonsense.
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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nicksiders
3218 posts
Jan 17, 2009
3:21 PM
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Cliff,
Ain't it funny how I seemed to have offended everyone except James Turner? What is a remark of sarcasm to you may not have the same intent to others. Because it was "your" James Turner it made it very harsh and sarcastic sounding. I don't think I have ever disrespected anyone, ever. Being ugly and weighing 340 lbs just makes me look like I would and could. I don't.
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Just My Take On Things
Nick Siders
Last Edited by on Jan 17, 2009 3:26 PM
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cballlofts
11 posts
Jan 17, 2009
3:41 PM
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Joe,
What part of My post was nonsense? Everything about those Roller Men were facts. If you had an issue with Mayo in the chatroom you should have kept it there. Did you not think you would get any remarks from anyone when you talk shit about someones Birds?
Chuck
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toronto15
8 posts
Jan 17, 2009
3:46 PM
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Chuck, I hope you don,t kiss your Granny good night with that dirty mouth.
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
201 posts
Jan 17, 2009
3:52 PM
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Chuck,
Go back and reread my post. I was not "talking shit" about anyones birds. He started this thread by running a good man down, I simply asked him a hypothetical question. I never said anything bad about the line of birds, to each his own. The fact remains that the man you refer to didn't fly his birds. He sold what he raised without regard to the quality of the individual birds in the air. Given the source of his birds, I am confident he raised some good ones but he sold a lot of bad ones also. He admitted it so I'm not sure why you are getting so defensive about.
Respectfully,
The Idiot
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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cballlofts
13 posts
Jan 17, 2009
4:31 PM
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Joe,
It is obvious that you don't know what you are talking about. Several of the Men I mentioned before bought Birds out of the air at Jaconettes house. I have talked to Men that have. I have an old VHS tape of Richards house with Him flying His Birds and several Guys watching. He also talks about His feed and ration for flying His Birds. Do a little research before you post anymore of you nonsense. I'm done with You.
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Ty Coleman
505 posts
Jan 17, 2009
4:48 PM
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(If you get a bird from his loft you can bet one thing, it will spin !)
Only if your standard is set low enough,this is a silly statement to say the least, if true or even possible I would kill everything on the property and be giving you all a call.
Scott, when you get ready to start culling let me know, I'll come and help you ! What I said was the truth. You will not get a bird from Mr. James that is not a spinner. He likes to say if it does'nt bother you to give the bird away then you hav'nt done the guy any favors.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Ty Coleman
506 posts
Jan 17, 2009
4:50 PM
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Chuck, ease up a little,lol good to see your still around ! How are those jac's doing for you ?
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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cballlofts
15 posts
Jan 17, 2009
5:02 PM
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Ty,
How's it been goin'? The Birds are doing great. A little fat now, but They will fly it off soon. How Ya doin' with Your Birds? It's hard to " ease up" when someone gets offended by someone else and starts talking rubbish. Oh well, I'm done with that. Tell Tiffany and the Kids I said Hey, and YOU ALL take care.
Chuck
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Ty Coleman
507 posts
Jan 17, 2009
5:07 PM
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Doin good Chuck, the birds are about the same as yours a little fat lol. Sorta thinkin about trying the WC but the 20 bird just doesnt do anything for me. Might try it once anyway.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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cballlofts
16 posts
Jan 17, 2009
5:12 PM
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Yea, You gotta try it. Since I started competing I fly in every fly that I can. The more You fly, the more You learn. Who knows, maybe we'll win a big one one of these years. Heh Heh.
Chuck
Last Edited by on Jan 17, 2009 5:13 PM
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Scott
1449 posts
Jan 17, 2009
6:19 PM
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Ty, thanks I needed a chuckle tonight, good luck !
Scott
(If you get a bird from his loft you can bet one thing, it will spin !)
Only if your standard is set low enough,this is a silly statement to say the least, if true or even possible I would kill everything on the property and be giving you all a call.
Scott, when you get ready to start culling let me know, I'll come and help you ! What I said was the truth. You will not get a bird from Mr. James that is not a spinner. He likes to say if it does'nt bother you to give the bird away then you hav'nt done the guy any favors.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Just my Opinion
Scott
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Marvin
80 posts
Jan 17, 2009
7:21 PM
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weres the boy who started this thread at speak up
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KATCHER
1 post
Jan 17, 2009
8:54 PM
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are tony roberts birds the same as james birds???
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donnie james
189 posts
Jan 17, 2009
8:58 PM
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how i under stand it most roller guys like the turner blood line so if you ain't tryed the blood line and don't knock it...............donny james
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KATCHER
4 posts
Jan 17, 2009
9:00 PM
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dunney james whatt do you fly???
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Ty Coleman
508 posts
Jan 18, 2009
7:42 AM
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Katcher, Roberts,Turner,Greene,and a few others in that area all started with basicly the same family of birds I believe in the 60's and 70's. From there on out it has been selective breedind by each of them. They are the same basic bloodline just bred differently. The article that Cliff wrote mentioned above is a good read! So far I have pedigreed my birds of this family all the way back to the 70's. Tony had the shooting star line, and James had the Rambo and the 007 line along with a few other lines within the same family. I have also heard that the Hardesty birds derived from the shooting star hen also.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Mayo
69 posts
Jan 18, 2009
11:12 AM
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Funny How someone can ask a simple question and those who answers carries it in a different direction . I never meant to or had intentions to show disrespect to James Turner or his line of Roller..... I just ask a question ( what should the line be called?) and this started an argument over nothing...........I never Criticized the Turner line ,but it seem the question got criticizing threw at me..............like running down a reputable mans bloodline( never said that!!!!)(never meant that!)
and Tony I dont need to Criticize anyone just to make myself feel smart or superior(You! are not perfect Neither!)NoW! do you feel Superior!.....JMO MaYo.......P.S. Turners are NOT Birminghams!
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Tony Chavarria
Site Publisher
3036 posts
Jan 18, 2009
11:16 AM
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No! Not feeeling superior! LOL
Mayo, I can't buy that you didn't know your question would raise some hackles. You are smarter than that!
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FLY ON! Tony Chavarria
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Scott
1457 posts
Jan 18, 2009
11:23 AM
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Here is a legit question, have they ever stood on thier own in a major Fly ? if so,who and when ?
Just to make the day interesting LOL
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 18, 2009 11:25 AM
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Ty Coleman
509 posts
Jan 18, 2009
11:53 AM
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CHARLIE STACK last year, I think Jay Yandle in 03 also. Cliff has finished very high with them also and in my first year flying comp I finished 6th with them.That is just start to the list.
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
Last Edited by on Jan 18, 2009 11:59 AM
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Scott
1458 posts
Jan 18, 2009
12:15 PM
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Doesn't Charlie fly Jake& Bakes also ?
I'm not big on useing the 11 bird as a standard for a major fly but didn't Jay cross them on Jacs like most ? I know at one time that he did.
You finished 6th in the 11 bird, out of what ? 12 or 13 flyers ? sorry but that is one of the main reasons I don't take the 11 bird fly serious,but it was a good way to get your feet wet and good job !
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 18, 2009 2:12 PM
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Sunflower
GOLD MEMBER
203 posts
Jan 18, 2009
12:21 PM
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I'm not getting back into this thread, caused enough trouble already. But I'm listening!!
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Keep em Spinning
Joe
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Mayo
70 posts
Jan 18, 2009
12:51 PM
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This post is going nowere. It's like whiping Peanut Butter out of Carpet...........Mayo
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Ty Coleman
510 posts
Jan 18, 2009
1:05 PM
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Scott, I respect your opinion, but breeding for all of my birds to break at one time just isnt my thing. I like to see real spinners and if all of them break at once you can not see the quality of every bird on every break. now thats my opinion
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Ty
Vapor Trail Lofts
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Scott
1460 posts
Jan 18, 2009
1:10 PM
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Ty, you don't breed for it, that is what he breed does,personaly I enjoy fielding my birds against the best of the country and the world,but thats just me , good luck what ever you do!
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Just my Opinion
Scott
Last Edited by on Jan 18, 2009 1:48 PM
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sundance
1025 posts
Jan 18, 2009
1:18 PM
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Katcher,
Donny James flies Birmingham Rollers, from Tom Monson and some almonds...
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Butch @
Sundance Roller Lofts
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